Is this a good reason why "can God create a rock he can't lift?" is an illogical question?

This question is representative of the type of paradoxes atheists use in attempts to prove that God cannot exist. It works like this. God is supposed to be omnipotent. If He is omnipotent, then He can create a rock so big that He can't pick it up. If He cannot make a rock like this, then He is not omnipotent. If He can make a rock so big He can't pick it up, then He isn't omnipotent either. Either way demonstrates that God cannot do something. Therefore God is not omnipotent. Therefore God does not exist.

Is this logical? A little. However, the problem is that this bit of logic omits some crucial information, therefore, it's conclusion is inaccurate.

What the above "paradox" lacks is vital information concerning God's nature. His omnipotence is not something independent of His nature. It is part of His nature. God has a nature and His attributes operate within that nature, as does anything and everything else.

For example, I have human nature. I can run. But, I cannot outrun a lion. My nature simply does not permit it. My ability to run is connected to my nature and I cannot violate it. So too with God. His omnipotence is connected to His nature since being omnipotent is part of what He is. Omnipotence, then, must be consistent with what He is and not with what He is not since His omnipotence is not an entity to itself. Therefore, God can only do those things that are consistent with His nature. He cannot lie because it is against His nature to do so. Not being able to lie does not mean He is not God or that He is not all powerful. Also, He cannot cease to be God. Since He is in all places at all times, if He stopped existing then He wouldn't be in all places at all time. Therefore, He cannot cease to exist without violating His own nature.

The point is that God cannot do something that is a violation of His own existence and nature. Therefore, He cannot make a rock so big he can't pick up, or make something bigger than Himself, etc. But, not being able to do this does not mean He is not God nor that He is not omnipotent. Omnipotence is not the ability to do anything conceivable, but the ability to do anything consistent with His nature and consistent with His desire within the realm of His unlimited and universal power which we do not possess. This does not mean He can violate His own nature. If He did something inconsistent with His nature, then He would be self contradictory. If God were self contradictory, He would not be true. Likewise, if He did something that violated his nature, like make a rock so big He can't pick it up, He would also not be true since that would be a self contradiction. Since truth is not self contradictory, as neither is God, if He were not true, then He would not be God. But God is true and not self contradictory, therefore, God cannot do something that violates His own nature.

Another way to look at it is realize that in order for God to make something so big He couldn't pick it up, He would have to make a rock bigger than Himself. Since He is infinite in size, He would have to make something that would be bigger than Himself. Since it is His nature to be the biggest thing in existence because He created all things, He cannot violate His own nature by making a rock that is larger than He.

Also, since a rock, by definition, is not infinitely big, then it isn't logically possible to make a rock, something that is finite in size, be infinite in size (no longer a rock) since only God is infinite in size. At dictionary.com, a rock is defined as a "Relatively hard, naturally formed mineral or petrified matter; stone. a) A relatively small piece or fragment of such material. b) A relatively large body of such material, as a cliff or peak. c) A naturally formed aggregate of mineral matter constituting a significant part of the earth's crust." A rock, by definition is not infinitely large. So, to say that the rock must be so big that God cannot pick it up is to say that the rock is no longer a rock.

What the critics are asking is that God become self contradictory as a proof He doesn't exist. Their assertion is illogical from the start. So what they are doing is trying to get God to be illogical. They want to use illogic to prove God doesn't exist instead of logic. It doesn't work and the "paradox" is self-refuting and invalid.

You're point would be valid if you were actually applying pure physical science. But you're not. So you're theory is also weightless.

A rock in space, even if it is not effected by gravity, still has weight and density and mass and still requires applied force to move it. You could not possibly apply enough force to move any rock weighing a trillion pounds even one inch. And without a pushing off point (inverse friction) yourself to counteract the lack of gravity you couldn't even lift a rock that weighed a thousand pounds or five hundred pounds.

Your theory is flawed because of the phrasing you use. Think about it and re-phrase your theory and it will work better.

However, believing in God myself, I really don't think the laws of physical science applies to God.

well if you are asking a question about god, then first you haft to assume that you believe in god. If you do not believe in god, then this question does not matter anyways. If you do believe in god, then you believe that he is not bound to the physical world but is above the physical world. So as a non physical being you are then asking can and would god create something physical and then place himself in that physical world and let himself be overcome by his own creation. If you are christian, then the answer would be yes (Jesus allowed himself to be overcome by his physical surroundings). If you are not christian then the answer would be no. The real question is not could he create something that even he can not overcome. The real question that people are trying to get at and make a paradox of is can he create something that he no longer has will over. Allowing himself to be over come s different from not allowing. The answer to that would be no since if you believe that everything is by his will, then you are asking him to will himself out of power.

Yes.

The question is illogical, and proves nothing. It is akin to asking your geometry teacher "Can you draw any two dimensional shape?"

If the answer is "yes"--Fine. Draw a one sided triangle.

Same faulty logic. God is omnipotent, and can do anything that is consistent with His nature, it is absurd to suggest that he can do everything.

God cannot lie (Hebrews 6:18); he cannot be tempted (James 1:13); and he cannot cease to exist (Psalm 102:25-27).

Just as it is impossible to make a one sided triangle, so it is impossible to make a rock too heavy to be moved. What an all-powerful God can create he can obviously move. Put another way, God can do everything that is logically possible.

We should note that a wide variety of similar questions are raised to undermine the Christian view of God. Thus, it is crucial that we learn to question the question rather than assuming the question is valid.

The purpose of that question is like a reverse of Pascal's Wager. Basically in either event (on Earth's atmospheric conditions, including it's gravitational field), God cannot be omnipotent because either he cannot make a rock too heavy for him, or he can and then he cannot move it, this meaning he does not have enough power for either event, and thus cannot be omnipotent.

Though yes, it is irrelevant. Not really illogical, but irrelevant. Because we could add what if God was on Uranus' atmospheric conditions (which I believe is 4 times that of Earth's correct?). Irrelevant > Illogical.

The reason why God could not create a rock bigger than he could life is because God could not take an action that would be less than what God is, all things, all power and glory and honor, love and hope and goodness.

God cannot limit God In this way, one could claim he is limited, but to claim to be limited by one's limitlessness is inane.

This is true :)

The idea of asking this tho was to prove that God can not do something--this is somehow supposed to show that God is not all powerful.

We know that there are some things God can not do--

1. God can not lie

2. God can not die

and so on..

However, this does not prove that God is not all powerful all that it proves is that God can limit himself.

An all powerful God can limit himself and still be all powerful. God limited himself when he went to the Cross. The first shall be the last and the last shall be the first.

The sun is loosing mass--compared to this earth the sun is all powerful yet its loosing mass. The fact that the sun is limiting itself by loosing mass does not mean it is not all powerful..

Hope this helps kinda..

thanks,

Can God create a rock He cannot move?

No.

Because

God only does things that have a reason/purpose. Creating the rock neither good nor bad. Its pointless. God doesnt do pointless.

God does whatever he wants....he's God ..and he can do that.

what are you gonna do about it...call the cops?

as for your science..you are quite correct,so good for you for thinking that through.

BUT....you cannot move the giant rock in space unless you have something substantial enough to push against...it does have mass

well all the big rocks God creates just kind of floats there in space there is no reason to lift it