Human makes pot from clay, does that mean someone must have made humans from clay?

Well, yes and no. On the one hand it is very simplistic thinking. However, there is some depth of insight in there as well. The clay is the stuff of the earth itself, and are we not made of the same molecules. Were'nt the carbon, hydrogen, oxygen, and other elements that make your body once part of the earth? And before it was earth wasn't it stardust? And before that wasn't it condensed in the big bang? And before that...????

RESPONSE: No, I don't the metaphor is primitive. Metaphor are in place to express thoughts that don't readily translate into plain language. If you carry the clay metaphor out to it's natural beginnings then you arrive at the conclusion that we are all one, all matter that we now dub 'different' or separate came from the same source (call it the Big Bang or God or whatever). This realization of the other as same is a significant and insightful metaphysical breakthrough in thinking that clearly not all of us moderns have grasped. So hats off to the primitives.

I reckon that the whole universe is intelligent, in a certain sense. So either there is no God or everything is God ... take your pick. I agree that the idea of a creator separate from existence does not make much sense. Creation is ongoing. Scientists have got to the edge of this process, but the details are a bit murky as yet.

I find the writings of many atheists inspirational!

The "there most be a 'beginning' as we have to start somewhere" is indeed a human-centric concept.

On the scale of 'real-reality' time (as we understand it) and therefore a chain of causation (as we understand it) is simply an illusion emerging from the state changes at the micro-level. But at that micro-level, time (and motion, and momentum, etc) simply don't exist: all that exists are state changes, some of which *appear* to us like motion, etc.

So, we understand *far* more if we throw away our causation-driven thinking; and in which case, the chain of 'humans from clay' disappears along with the notion of a first cause, a time before the big bang, a cause for the big bang, etc.

We can create, therefore we must have a creator? That kind of thing? I wish it were so, but unfortunately, just cause we can create doesnt mean there must be a creator. People want to look at earth and see some evidence of "design", unfortunately all they see is the product of evolution over billions of years.

Human-centric, as you say.

There are two processes that produce the appearance of created design. One is intelligently designed creations; the other is evolution by natural selection.

in essence, yes. If you see a Vase you logically assume it was created since by itself clay doesn't form in that manner. Likewise we know that matter and energy cannot be created or destroyed (humanly or mechanically) therefore we believe in a God.

The Bible says God made man from the dust of the earth and breathed a living soul into him.

Isa 55:9

9 For [as] the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.

And the Lord said unto me: These two facts do exist, that there are two spirits, one being more intelligent than the other; there shall be another more intelligent than they; I am the Lord thy God, I am more intelligent than they all.

That's the trouble with religion. We make gods human.

your body is made of water and a handful of metal and minerals, used to be about a $1.50 worth, no idea these days, without the spark of life it is just that, a pile of mud