christians.im reluctant about O.S.A.S is there anyone who can actually prove O.S.A.S?

Once-saved-always-saved is not just unbiblical: It is a direct contradiction to Jesus' teachings about salvation.

Jesus taught that salvation requires endurance to the end:

Matthew 10:22: And you will be hated by all for My name’s sake. But he who endures to the end will be saved.

Matthew 24:13: But he who endures to the end shall be saved.

Mark 13:13: And you will be hated by all for My name’s sake. But he who endures to the end shall be saved.

Luke 21:16-18: You will be betrayed even by parents, brothers, relatives and friends, and they will put some of you to death. All men will hate you because of me. But not a hair of your head will perish. By standing firm you will gain life.

By implication, those who do not endure to the end, who abandon God to chase after the false gods of this world, will not not gain eternal life. As you say, they may take sin to new depths, demonstrating how horrible a person can be. While they can repent and seek reconciiation with God as long as they live, not everyone has the opportunity to take stock on one's life when death comes. Death may arrive suddenly, as in a car crash, closing the window on repentance.

CJ misunderstands Jesus in John 6: "And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all that he has given me, but raise them up at the last day. For my Father's will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day." Jesus is saying that God's will is that none would be lost, but not everyone obeys God.

Later in the same chapter, Jesus says, "Have I not chosen you, the Twelve? Yet one of you is a devil!" (He meant Judas, the son of Simon Iscariot, who, though one of the Twelve, was later to betray him.)" Now read John 17:12: "While I was with them, I protected them and kept them safe by that name you gave me. None has been lost except the one doomed to destruction so that Scripture would be fulfilled."

In other words, despite God's will and Jesus' perfect work, Judas rejected Christ and was lost.

Cheers,

Bruce

Good news! You are not new in this dilemma. Chances are that if you are worried that you are not saved then you are. That is of course only if you and I are on the same page on what Salvation is. In Acts it is said "Sirs what must I do to be saved? And he said to them 'Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved'."

The idea behind salvation is that you are adopted into Gods "family." Think of him like your earthly father who is supposed to love you even when you make mistakes. Instead of God constantly punishing you for making mistakes he let his son take it for us all in one go.

In order to be saved you have to believe that Jesus was who he said he is, and that he did what he said he did. And finally you just have to ask for forgiveness.

So what did Jesus say he was? Well he said that "anyone who has seen me has seen the father." He said he was God. There is not denying or prancing around this issue. Once you are saved you ARE SAVED. If you believe these things then their are naturally things you should be doing. It is important to remember that Christianity is the only religion that does not require good works for salvation. You cannot lose salvation once you have it. But don't think of it as a "get out of hell free card." You still have responsibilities to do the right thing.

The second item on the list is that He did what he said he did. That is he died in your place. he took your punishment. Perhaps the single most loving thing anyone has ever done for anyone else. It was the perfect example of selfless sacrifice. This means that when he dies on the cross he knew he was dyeing for you. personally you. Scripture tells us that he knew you in your mother womb. Even before you existence God took care of the problem.

Yeah you are gonna make mistakes, everyone does. The cool thing about Christians is forgiveness. When you make a mistake all you have to do is admit it was a mistake and ask for forgiveness. The asking part is important. If you want to discuss the topic more just send me an email, I can find you on and Instant messaging system or something and answer any questions you might have. I could open a whole can of worms with the why Evil Exists in the first place but I don't want to bore you. if You want to know why evil exists you can like I said send me a message.

"And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession—to the praise of his glory."

I was OSAS for almost 40 years until some life changing things happened to my family. I have even taught this doctrine. But after much studying and mediating on God's word in search of other answers God convicted me greatly of this false doctrine. It was not the answer I expected from God. Believe me I like the ear tickling doctrine of OSAS. But through many scriptures God has shown me that salvation is conditional. OSAS can cause you to lose you fear of a holy and righteous God. It can cause you to start to let your guard down. I am seeing the fruits of this bad and evil doctrine. I was a Baptist and have now left the church in search for ones that do not teach OSAS. I can from my own experience that the battle against sin is a whole lot easier if you know that there is severe consequences to sin. Like not inheriting the kingdom of God. Apostle Paul warned in 1 Cor.6:9-10, Gal. 5:19-21, Eph. 5:6 etc. that Christians that do these things will lose their salvation.

Please focus on the conditional passages and interpret everything from those. Eph. 5:6 "Let no man (including me) deceive you with vain words (words of no value): for because of these things (Sins Listed) cometh the wrath of God upon the Children of disobedience."

A healthy fear of God can do wonders for somebody that is sinning.

James 5:19-20 Brethren (believers), if any (whosoever) of you (one of the believers) do err (sin) from the truth, and one convert him; Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner (fallen christian) from the error of his way shall save a soul from death (spiritual), and shall hide a multitude of sins.

This is very serious! Note all are appointed to physical death. This is talking about spiritual death which is a lose of spiritual life.

Stay in the word of God daily. Memorize scriptures. I hope you get back on track. I hope I encouraged you in the right direction.

Matthew 7:21 is speaking to the those who use the Lords name for their own gain, not true believers. Matthew 24:13 simply points out that those who are truly the Lords, will in fact endure to the end. As we know, there are many who start the walk but when the wind blows against them, they quit. Many pretend to continue but they don't. Pauls use of the word "disqualifed" in no way means that he thinks he can lose his salvation, he wrote far more on eternal security, so it would a contradiction to think he is saying he could lose his salvation. He is speaking of being fruitful to the end. Not stopping the work before the finish line. You can't lose your salvation if it is real. He who has the Son has life, he who has not the Son of God has not life but the wrath of God abides on him. Paul said that he was convinced that neither depth nor height nor.......and so on and so on can separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus. NO ONE CAN BE PLUCKED OUT OF THE HAND OF GOD!

While OSAS is a lie, also keep in mind that everyone messes up - none of us will ever be perfect in this life.

I sincerely believe the ‘once saved always saved’ concept to be wrong. The implication that once someone becomes a ‘real’ Christian (a definition would be handy) they are saved and that they can’t backslide or commit a sin which would rob them of that inheritance.

From my experience, Christians can sin and they often do sin but to believe that a Christian can live any way he or she likes, and still be saved, is dangerous. Some argue that a ‘real’ Christian wouldn’t commit these sins and it is the ‘almost Christians’ who fall foul of this type of entrapment from the enemy. I believe that would be wrong too. Committed Christians sin for all sorts of reasons and we are only saved by God’s amazing Grace, not our level of commitment. God knows our true heart!

If a Christian sins maliciously (deliberately breaks laws for his or her own advantage – say purchasing goods known, or strongly suspected, of being stolen) that is quite different from accidentally sinning – something we all do constantly.

God knows our true intention. We might be able to fool a police officer that we sinned accidentally, but God knows the real truth. I believe that if we deliberately go against the direction given by Jesus (who, you will remember, said to obey the laws of the land) then we must suffer the consequences – and that might mean the loss of eternal life.

Matthew 13:18-23

18 “Listen then to what the parable of the sower means:

19 When anyone hears the message about the kingdom and does not understand it, the evil one comes and snatches away what was sown in his heart. This is the seed sown along the path.

20 The one who received the seed that fell on rocky places is the man who hears the word and at once receives it with joy.

21 But since he has no root, he lasts only a short time. When trouble or persecution comes because of the word, he quickly falls away.

22 The one who received the seed that fell among the thorns is the man who hears the word, but the worries of this life and the deceitfulness of wealth choke it, making it unfruitful.

23 But the one who received the seed that fell on good soil is the man who hears the word and understands it. He produces a crop, yielding a hundred, sixty or thirty times what was sown.” [NIV]

For people who believe that “once saved, always saved” I rhetorically ask: how do you relate your beliefs to Matthew 13: 20-21? If a man cannot lose his salvation then why would Jesus say: “When trouble or persecution comes because of the word, he quickly falls away”?

Mark 13:13 says:

[Jesus said] “All men will hate you because of me, but he who stands firm to the end will be saved.” [NIV]

Look again at the second half of that sentence. Jesus is saying that to be saved you must stand firm (for Him) until you die. Conversely He is therefore saying that those who do not stand firm will not be saved! Notice that I am not quoting Paul or any other Apostle or Disciple, but the Son of God Himself.

If God didn’t want us to be able to choose He would not have given us the gift of freewill. It is this gift which places us above the animals. It is this gift which allows us to choose to either worship God or not worship God. It is this gift, and only this gift, which allows us to truly love Him like a son. It is this gift which proves that ‘once saved, always saved’ must be wrong.

If we are saved in spite of ourselves then there is no freewill. If there is no freewill then the Bible is wrong!

I don’t believe that the Bible is wrong...

Salvation is yours Forever when you accept Christ Jesus as your savior from the punishment of your sins and Here are the Verses that prove this

John10:27-29

John11:25-26

John5:24

Romans 8:38-39

1 John5:11-12

Philippians 1:6

1Peter 1:4

Just another dogmatic teaching that isn't supported by the Bible. In fact, most of the Bible isn't even supported by the rest of the Bible, so I guess it doesn't really matter.

No it is not right. Salvation is a life long process, not a one time thing of saying you believe in Jesus.

The apostle John wrote us a wonderful promise from God: John 3:16-17 "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life."

Does this mean that once we accept Jesus in our heart by faith, and thus are saved, that we can do anything even immoral things, and we still will be saved? Let's see what the Scriptures says about this.

1 Tim 4:1: "The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons."

This text shows that Christians can loose their salvation if they follow deceiving spirits.

2 Peter 2:20-22: "If they have escaped the corruption of the world by knowing our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ and are again entangled in it and overcome, they are worse off at the end than they were at the beginning. It would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than to have known it and then to turn their backs on the sacred command that was passed on to them. Of them the proverbs are true: 'A dog returns to its vomit," and, "A sow that is washed goes back to her wallowing in the mud.'"

The apostle Peter indicates clearly here that it is worst for someone who has accepted Jesus in his life to return to his old ways than "not to have known the way of righteousness". Why? The book of Hebrews explains this for us.

Heb 6:4-6: "It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age, if they fall away, to be brought back to repentance, because to their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace."

This text describes Christians who not only accepted Jesus by faith into their life, but also personally tasted God's Holy Spirit. What happens to them if they "fall away'? This text is clear. It is impossible for them to be brought back to repentance, and thus obtain eternal salvation, because they did sin against the Holy Spirit. They have lost it!

Heb 10:26-28: "If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God."

Here we see clearly that once we have accepted Jesus in our life, we just can't go on living as if He did not exist, and "deliberately keep on sinning". What would be the result if you did? Would you still obtain eternal salvation? The Bible says that these will have "a fearful expectation of judgment". There again, they have lost their salvation.

The apostle Paul confirms this in 1 Cor 15:1-2: "Now, brothers, I want to remind you of the gospel I preached to you, which you received and on which you have taken your stand. By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain."

In other words, if someone does not hold on firm to God's word, he/she has "believed in vain".

An example that one can loose his/her salvation is King Saul. He was chosen by God to be the first king of Israel. He was filled with God's Spirit at first (1 Samuel 10 6), but because of his pride and evil actions, never repenting from what he did wrong, eventually God's Spirit departed from him 1 Sam 16:14 "Now the Spirit of the LORD had departed from Saul…" NIV King Saul had been saved, but he lost his salvation due to his unrepentant heart. How sad!

These texts clearly contradict the theory of "Once saved, always saved". This theory is simply not Biblical.

"As the Bible says, I am already saved (Rom. 8:24, Eph. 2:5–8), but I’m also being saved (1 Cor. 1:8, 2 Cor. 2:15, Phil. 2:12), and I have the hope that I will be saved (Rom. 5:9–10, 1 Cor. 3:12–15). Like the apostle Paul I am working out my salvation in fear and trembling (Phil. 2:12), with hopeful confidence in the promises of Christ (Rom. 5:2, 2 Tim. 2:11–13)."

Once saved always saved is a Baptist doctrine, also Presbyterian and Roman Catholic. Those are the faiths that accept either single or double predestination. Only those religions and a handful other others less well known, believe it. Pentcostals, Methodists, Church of Christ and others do not.

Hebrews 10:26, 29, Rev. 3:5.

Debbie

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