A question for Pagans (other religions may answer)?

Meaning no disrespect for your teacher, I must say that NO ONE can easily define religion. Most such attempts are far too restrictive and eliminate many that don't precisely fit the given definition. I personally believe Paganism to be a religion, but I also believe Satanism is a religion, along with many of the so-called primitive beliefs and practices. Would the Native American beliefs not be religions? What of Shinto, Taoism, Jainism, Witchcraft, Druidism, and even Voodoo?

There is clearly not room here to expound as much as I would like to, so I will try to respond briefly to your points and then include a few links.

I have not aligned myself with any particular religion. My emotions overall on religion are mild, but I do wish more people would really practice tolerance and acceptance without being judgmental about another person's beliefs. As to Paganism, many fear it as a route to "the Devil," but I just accept it as part of what is and as a religion many people do practice. Some define it as an "umbrella" covering all religions not fit neatly into Christianity, Judaism, or Islam. Back to the Native American beliefs, here is a quote that might make us think:

"If you take [a copy of] the Christian Bible and put it out in the wind and the rain, soon the paper on which the words are printed will disintegrate and the words will be gone. Our bible IS the wind and the rain." Herbalist Carol McGrath as told to her by a Native-American woman. This paragraph and the following one are taken directly from ReligiousTolerance.org (Ontario Consultants on Religious Tolerance).

These are derived from the third link below.

Some interpret this saying as stating that the Native American Bible is stronger than the Christian Bible, and would destroy the latter. i.e. it is a type of "my God is bigger than your God" saying that has caused so much loss of life and destruction, and that threatens the existence of the human race. It isn't. It is merely saying that Earth-centered religions obtain their spiritual guidance from the forces of nature, whereas Christians obtain their guidance from the written Bible.

Some insist that Paganism is not a proper name for a religion, for they think there are many forms of religion that are pagan in nature but that Paganism itself is not a religion. How could it not be a religion?

Consider the following paragraphs through the one numbered 8. These are taken from http://www.sullivan-county.com/nf0/nov_2... which is repeated in the link list below.

In simplest terms Paganism is a religion of place, or a native religion, for example the Native American's religion is Pagan, Hinduism is a form of Paganism. All Pagan religions are characterised by a connection and reverence for nature, and are usually polytheistic i.e. have many Gods and/or Goddesses.

Modern Paganism as practised in the west is particular to the native peoples of the west and although there are many forms most are descended from Celtic origins. Modern Paganism or 'neo-Paganism' has the following characteristics:

1. Paganism is a religion of nature, in other words Pagans revere Nature. Pagans see the divine as immanent in the whole of life and the universe; in every tree, plant, animal and object, man and woman and in the dark side of life as much as in the light. Pagans live their lives attuned to the cycles of Nature, the seasons, life and death.

2. Unlike the patriarchal religions (Christianity, Islam, Judaism) the divine is female as well as male and therefore there is a Goddess as well as a God. These deities are within us as well as without us (immanent); they are us. They are not simply substitutes for the Muslim or Judeo-Christian God. This is because the Gods of the major religions tend to be super-natural i.e. above nature whereas Pagan deities are natural, symbolizing aspects of nature or human nature. Having said that God and Goddess are split from the Great Spirit or Akashka which probably equates to the God of the patriarchal religions.

3. The Goddess represents all that is female and the God represents all that is male. But because nature is seen as female the Goddess has a wider meaning. Often called Mother Earth or Gaia she is seen as the creatrix and sustainer of life, the mother of us all which makes all the creatures on the planet our siblings.

4. There are sub-groups of named Gods and Goddesses called Pantheons, drawn from the distant past, for example Isis and Osiris from Egypt or Thor, Odin, Freya et al from Norse religion and mythology. Ancient Pagans would have worshipped one or a small number of Gods and Goddesses, whilst often recognizing the validity of other people's deities. The concept of an overall, un-named Goddess and God, the sum totals of all the others, appears to be a recent one but individual named deities represent particular human qualities or archetypes and are often used as a focus for celebrations and spiritual rites.

5. Paganism has developed alongside mankind for thousands of years; as cultures have changed so has Paganism, yet it is grounded in deep rooted genetic memories that go back to neolithic times and before. Thus Paganism is not just a nature religion but a natural religion.

6. Paganism in the west takes a number of forms including Wicca, Druidism, and Shamanism.

7. To Pagans the four ancient elements, Earth, Air, Fire and Water have special significance. The importance of these is hard to define because they have so many correspondences, for example they are associated with the four directions, North, East, South and West. Each element is a kind of spiritual substance from which all things are made especially ourselves and at the same time are Guardians both of ourselves and of the Goddess and God, and guarding the gateways between this world and the other world.

8. Many Pagans believe in reincarnation in some form. It gives Pagans a substantially different view of life. Early Christians saw Karma as a kind of treadmill, trapping people in endless reincarnations, never free. But Pagans see reincarnation as, at best, a chance to improve or to continue unfinished work, and at worst just a simple re-cycling of souls.

Well, I shall stop now and post this. Following are several links worth investigating. Of course, there are many more resources.

http://wildhunt.org/blog/2007/10/is-paga...

http://www.spiralgoddess.com/Pagan101.ht...

http://www.religioustolerance.org/witchc...

http://www.sullivan-county.com/nf0/nov_2...

http://www.religioustolerance.org/rel_de...

http://www.allaboutreligion.org/definiti...

Great question, yours is! Surely it will foster some fine discussions.

I'm new here but this caught my eye right away. It's sad that this teacher didn't do more research into Paganism and Wicca. Paganism was one of the original RELIGIONS before christianity came along. Pagan is more an earth religion than Wicca but they ARE religions. I believe the Wiccan religion was recognized as a religion by the world at a conference in 1997 (?) at a big summit meeting on Wiccan Religion. The US Government even recognizes it - the soldiers who pass over are now allowed to have the pentagram put on their headstones where it was not recognized before. You handled it correctly! Better to not draw attention to yourself by arguing with him. We are not completely out of the closet yet as a lot people still think we do sacrafices, etc. Your teacher was being very SMALL MINDED! Perhaps when there is a way to get to the class before anyone else, you could leave him a book on Paganism or Wicca. And there are many different sects of the Pagan Religion - including Hinduism. The Celts are a big sect. And it is thought they came from around India before settling in Western Europe. Maybe leave you teacher a list of books he can read to better inform him so he doesn't look like a biggoted jerk again. lol

If Wicca is not a "real" religion then why is there a Law Enforcement Guide to Wicca? Why are military chaplains required to learn basic Wicca principles? Why are our soldiers allowed the pentacle on their tombstone?

Yes, if you haven't noticed, I am Pagan, NOT WICCAN! And yes, there is a difference. All Wiccans are Pagan, but not all Pagans are Wiccan. Wiccans follow the Wiccan Rede, I follow the 42 Laws of Ma'at more than I do the Wiccan Rede. As for our place of worship? Unlike Christians, Pagans do not need a building made "of wood and stone", we worship our Mother Earth, OUTSIDE! Not "to a tree" but to the essence of life! The essence that is both within and without us all. However, as it stands today, WICCA IS THE ONLY LEGAL PAGAN RELIGION!!!! And that is only due to the blood, sweat, and tears of Gavin and Evon Frost.

I wish that people would actually research a topic before saying anything about it, one way or the other. But, what can you do?

On a side note, after reading another answer - if your teacher is going off the basis of which major religions had an effect on civilization, what about the Egyptians? They were heavily Pagan and they have contributed more than most in ways of a legacy left behind... and I don't mean a blood trail (like the Inquisition or the Crusades...) I mean the Pyramids of Giza, Cleopatra, The Valley of the Kings, King Tut.... the list goes on.

And as for his scoff at trees.... ask him if he gets a Christmas tree every year for x-mas. I bet he does!!! I hope he knows that the Christmas tree is actually a PAGAN tradition adopted by Christians in their attempt to convert Pagans.. which is why xmas is held 3 days after Yule o:)

As a Pagan and a Witch for the past- oh, I don't know- 12 years!- The comments that your teacher said have offended me. I normally don't get too bothered when ignorant people say things about my religion, because they usually don't know any better. But for a teacher to say that in front of his class? That's just appalling.

The Pagan religions are kind of jumbled together, but Paganism and Wicca as a whole are recognized by the United States of America (and other countries, such as England, Ireland, Scotland, Italy...) as a REAL religion. In fact, it is quickly becoming the fastest growing religion. You can receive more information on the legalities from the Witches' Public Awareness League.

No, we don't go around worshipping trees. We worship Nature, but now-a-days, most of us in larger cities tend to do things indoors. We try to keep in touch with Nature as a rule since everything that we need to survive is found in Nature. There are no set places for worship unless you are involved with a coven, but worship can be done anywhere, with or without others. Some people actually set up church-like atmospheres to worship in. It's just a preference of the individual and community at large. As for rules.... Well, there's no real set rules other than the Wiccan Rede, which basically states that you shouldn't harm anyone. (Sounds alot like the "golden rule," right?) Also, most of us believe in the Three Fold Law, which says that anything you do comes back to you three times, kind of like karma.

As for evidence of Paganism as a real religion, I would hope that if the government sanctions it, and if the church-like atmosphere has its tax exemptions just the same as any other religion's churches do, that others would see it as a "real" religion.

Sorry if I rambled. I was upset. Hope this helps you a bit.

Your teacher sounds like a man that needs hard evidence. I admire your restraint in keeping buttons but perhaps you should just print this out and give him a copy without saying anymore and let the text speak for itself. I will include the link. I count more than 5....do you?

Major Religions of the World

Ranked by Number of Adherents

(Sizes shown are approximate estimates, and are here mainly for the purpose of ordering the groups, not providing a definitive number. This list is sociological/statistical in perspective.)

Christianity: 2.1 billion

Islam: 1.5 billion

Secular/Nonreligious/Agnostic/Atheist: 1.1 billion

Hinduism: 900 million

Chinese traditional religion: 394 million

Buddhism: 376 million

primal-indigenous: 300 million

African Traditional & Diasporic: 100 million

Sikhism: 23 million

Juche: 19 million

Spiritism: 15 million

Judaism: 14 million

Baha'i: 7 million

Jainism: 4.2 million

Shinto: 4 million

Cao Dai: 4 million

Zoroastrianism: 2.6 million

Tenrikyo: 2 million

Neo-Paganism: 1 million

Unitarian-Universalism: 800 thousand

Rastafarianism: 600 thousand

Scientology: 500 thousand

There's a cut little pie chart should the text be too much for him.

Well, I would say that you are not the jackass whisperer.

Sounds like he is just short of proselytizing for whatever sect of Christianity he's part of--and he was right in his FORMER classes NOT to bring it up if he doesn't know any more than that.

The American Academy of Religion (the primary professional society for scholars--most of them professors--who study religion) recognizes Paganism as an umbrella term for a variety of religions (and the Academy does term these religions). When referring to the NeoPagaism specifically, the Academy recognizes Asatru, Wicca, and other Nature-centered and/or polytheistic Pagan paths as separate religions within a broader revivalist movement.

If you care to present your teacher with some homework so that he can learn better, you can point him at the program for the Academy's most recent meeting:

https://www.aarweb.org/sites/default/files/pdfs/An...

He will find abundant references to the religions of Jains, Sikhs, Taoists, and indigenous peoples in Africa and elsewhere, as well as material on NeoPagan religions.

He should also take a look at the scholarly journal POMEGRANATE.

Actually, he could take a look at just about any overview text on religious studies written since about 2000 by any well-respected scholar of religion (I'd say 1980, but really, Christian bias has remained strong enough that minority religions didn't really come to the attention to many scholars besides anthropologists before 2000).

Because someone holds a degree or license, that does not mean they are qualified in some areas, it appears such is the case of your teacher..

Please remind him that he may scoff at Pagan religions, however, it was only a thousand years ago,not very long ago, that Norse Pagans were and still do in some areas worship trees..

Now then, my emotions, I'm not ruled by them,

my thoughts, above is an example and although I have many more examples, too numerous to list.. Paganism is a fact.. Historical facts.

my opinion. . none

Paganism is recognized by the United States as a legal religion and many Pagan military personnel have Pagan symbols on their headstones..

And for the sake of argument ask your teacher if a snake talking to a women in a garden and telling her to eat fruit is any less valid than someone worshiping a tree?

Yes I am a Pagan

Blessings

Vikingwoman

What is the meaning of "true religion" in this context? Is it some kind of specific definition of religious practice? A thing where a religion must have the properties X, Y, and Z to be called a religion, or it should be called something else? (If that is the case it's strange that both Buddhism and Hinduism qualify, neither one fits the typical mold of "religion," really.) Or was it a judgement on the truth-value of the religions?

If it is the second a sociology professor has no business discussing it in class at all.

If it's the first one then I would really have to know what exactly was said before I could agree or disagree.

rather than being mad i am simply amused.ignorance tends to amuse me.For how can i pssibly be mad at someone who doesn't know any better? i would be considered a pagan by most but i am not really fond of labels..i just say i try my best to live in harmony with the earth,i honor her cycles, seasons,and inhabitants.I think for some paganism is simply a way of life.this includes me,practioners of witchcraft that arent wiccan, people that practice other magical ways,people who live in the old way that are consider pagan by judeo-chistian beliefs; but for others it is a religion, like wicca; this is a religion and they are pagan. i am going to ask you not to worry about your teacher who obviously hasn't had a diverse life nor had the opportunity to meet pagans or learn about them...otherwise he wouldn't have made the 'praying to trees commit" pray for him he needs his eyes opened as well as his heart. I have no proof to back up what i have said, pagans are usually very secretive,i am sure you understand why^_^ everything i know i have learned from others and the occassional books.we have nothing like the catholic church or the bible to give covens,groups or individuals validation,^_^ so you just have to take my word for it or you could go to belief.net which is a good place to find info on pagans and a lot of other religions..i would actually prefer if you did that

Oh the days of high school. . . this brings back memories. . . one day my teacher (also soc) had the nerve to say close to the same thing as yours did. I didn't say anything because my school was 99% christian. . . and I didn't need that head ache my sr year. . . least with the students.

my opinion then as it is now is that's rude, offending, and he has no place teaching if he cannot teach what the facts are and not just his personaly opinion on a religion group.

what i did then? I got up the following week when he yet again stated something that wasnt true. . . (the pagan things/religion things werent the first things he said that werent true). . . I got up and looked right at him, to his face and infront of everyone the shy girl that didn't talk much (me) said:

"your books that you are just blindly reading from are so out of date and misinformed that it offends me and kills my brain cells and I think that you should just stick to being that ASSISANTCE COACH of the foot ball team because you sure as sh't can't teach nor are you good nuff to be the COACH of the foot ball team."

yeah, I spent that afternoon in the office, but I can't stand people not knowing the facts and spreading lies. I suggest talking to a school conciler and telling them how hurt and such you are about this. . . I'd just keep going till something happened, but that's me now. I perfer an appoligy written hand delivered to me with him explaining that he was truely sorry for what he did to you.

Well, not throwing a temper tantrum was the right idea - that doesn't help anyone. And while ignorant and closed minded people can be very aggravating, there's not much we can do about them if they choose to remain willfully ignorant - so once you've said your piece and its obvious they refuse to take it in consideration, it's best to walk away from an inevitable fight.

Your teacher is wrong of course. (And, by some definitions, Buddhism and Hinduism fall under the umbrella of pagan religions.)

You made a valid point that Wicca, one of the many pagan faiths, is recognized as a religion.

It is recognized by the U.S. federal government, its groups are eligible for tax exempt status, and it is listed in the U.S. Army's Chaplain's Handbook - for 1 of your Edit. Documentation:

http://www.religioustolerance.org/wic_rel.htm

http://www.religioustolerance.org/wic_usbk.htm

As far as rules, there are only a few core rules accepted by the majority of Wiccans, such as the Wiccan Rede, and the Law of Return/Threefold Law - this is what makes it hard for others, especially some Christians, to believe that we can lead an ethical life - because we don't have a huge book of impossible standards that was written thousands of years ago to try to live up to. It's hard to really explain it well to someone with this mentatlity.

2. Do followers have a place or group for worship?

And no, I don't "pray to a tree", but what's wrong with praying to the gods under a tree? Even if you're Christian and praying to one God - does it matter *where* you pray? Why not out amidst God's creation? Is a man-made building necessary for prayer and worship - is that the only way God will see/hear them?

Our groups are called covens, and are led by an ordained High Priest and/or High Priestess. My group meets to worship and celebrate the holy days either at a local state park or a group member's farm when weather permits outdoor rituals - otherwise we meet and set up our altar at a rented hall.

I would bring him the "evidence" he seems to need - documentation on the U.S. court rulings, the Army Chaplain's handbook, etc. - just hand it to him or leave it for him and leave it at that.

If he continues to preach his "only five real religions" nonsense - report him to the school board for preaching/giving students false information about religion - which is exactly why folks want to keep religion out of public schools.

Raille - "I think it is just fitting not to associate those Wiccan and other pagan practices as religion because religion actually divides instead of bringing together all people as a human society. Have you still not noticed how each religion says that only theirs will lead you to heaven? and the others are bound to hell?"

Wrong - Wicca and most other pagan paths do not claim to be the "only right way" for *everyone*. Heaven and Hell are concepts of the Abrahamic religions - they are the only ones who preach this. Wiccans do not wish to divide, we wish for, at the very least, tolerance for differences in religion - better yet would be that we could coexist in peace despite our differences in spiritual choices. We don't deserve to not be considered a religion just because the "mainstream" religions can't make peace with those who do not follow their ways.