Is this the type of discussion anti Christians want?

I tried to keep your name out of this discussion but if you wish to accept it then go ahead.

Also sources usually mean something a great deal more substantial than 'my professor who I trust told me' I do not know this man from Adam and is not a verifiable source. You gave me no sources to work with or independently check to determine the validity for. I am still open to talk about it, all I ask are sources that I can check to verify.

Cassie, would you like me to quote the sources you gave me?

Jared, that was the point I was trying to make.

mighty, I do not care in the slightest if someone was mean to me on the internet, I am asking if it is worth continuing if we will not get anywhere.

Cassie, I am asking your permission to do so, if it is granted then I will.

imagine, I do not agree with that statement either, it is people not institutions.

jeff, true, but we are also called to be in the world to provide explanation.

aaron, I am asking if this will be a general trend.

cal, I have no intention of engaging in war.

Lady, if I had been given sources to check I would not have a problem.

Blessed, the problem is my study of history and my degree in the field show me differently.

I was told, without citation that

"So the Catholics aren't real Christians either? Since they murder people down in South America?

And the Evangelicals aren't real Christians, since their missionaries rape young girls?

So every Christian sect that does something evil and disgusting isn't really Christian?

I was looking for citation for the claims against Catholic and Evangelicals here.

So what? Fundamentalists in AMERICA are politically motivated when they gun down doctors who perform abortions, but that doesn't mean their reasons weren't religious. If they weren't fundamentalist nutjobs to start with they wouldn't have done it.

Deny it all you like, but the body count that your religion creates speaks for itself. The history pages speak for themselves. The idiots on YA who threaten people with "hellfire" and even personal harm speak for themselves.

Your religion has a higher death toll than any other single organization that has ever existed. The Nazi's, the USSR, the Muslims, whatever you care to name - Christians have killed more. A LOT more.

With such an impressive body count, how can you claim it's just "a few bad seeds?" History shows that the "bad seed" is actually Christianity itself.

I asked for verification on the numbers.

There you go again, claiming that every Christian sect that does something bad "isn't Christian." How can that be true when EVERY SINGLE SECT has done something bad?

The USSR, Communist China and the Nazi regime COMBINED have a death toll of about 100 million if you take the moderate estimate, which is still less than the death toll for Christianity pre-1900 alone.

But you can't actually include all of those figures, since at Romanian Christians were actually fervently involved in the Holocaust genocide, and Hitler himself was a Christian, and so was Stalin.

The Christian death toll ranks in the hundreds of millions. No other organization even comes close to that.

And how do you add that up, when less calculable causes of death like exile are also a huge contributing factor? You also have to account for population size differences. Christians have destroyed entire races, even if their total head count was only a few million.

I wanted to know the exact number myself, so I asked a history teacher and former professor I knew. This man was a devout Catholic, by the way.

I asked him how many deaths are attributes to Christianity. He looked at me incredulously and said "How many stars are in the sky? That's about the same number."

Christians have killed so many people that it's actually impossible for us to count them all.

I'd have a lot more respect for you if you could just admit it and say you don't care and you'll believe anyway. But I have no respect for liars.

So far the only source I have seen is an unnamed professor.

Hitler was a Christian, and was a Christian until the day he died begging for admission into Heaven. But he was also a very shrewd man. The reason that communism/fascism and theocracy never co-exist is because they cancel each other out. You can't have someone following two different cults.

So, Hitler decided (correctly) that he would have a better chance of getting away with a secular cult than a religious one because everyone is aware of how much damage religious cults have done. Secular cults were not suspect back then. If he was such an atheist, why did SO MANY Christian cults follow him, and assist in his genocides?

If the majority of people in a given religion practice at the very least intolerance, and the worst straight-out crimes against humanity, then yes, I CAN blame the entire organization. By your definition, there ARE no real Christians. The Bible itself condones acts of violence and exclusion. I've read it twice. I know what your book says.

I've provided you with sources. You've chosen to ignore them. Because you can't keep your faith when you know that your religion is responsible for the most despicable acts of man kind. So you have chosen to ignore the facts rather than give up your faith.

So what is there left for me to say? You've made your choice. I won't waste any more time on this when I could be talking to someone more open-minded who may actually help put a stop to the grief your religion has brought into the world.

I have not seen one verifiable source, if I am wrong will someone point it out for me so that I can apologize. All I wanted was an open discussion, but to have that I needed details and then was denied them.

And by the way Cassie, please do not insult the friendships I have, I have not personally attacked or insulted you at all. You know next to nothing about me, aside from the fact that I disagree with you on somethings, that does not give you leave to insult my friends nor myself. I have tried to be civil and polite and have tried to keep you out of this in a personal way and have gone out of my way to ask permission to use what you have written, I do not deserve your ire for this, please do not needlessly insult me or my beliefs without verifiable truth from cited sources.

Joe, I thought I was trying to understand a perspective.

Leader, I know that but I am seeking to see how I can do what I need to do more effectively

MEdn, I am sorry you feel life is hopeless, I can assure you that it is not.

Dan, politics is still a tool of people, that is my point, it is individuals who caused the suffering.

4bz, Thank you for the insight, I appreciate it.

shorty, Google does not tell why people find the arguments compelling, that was what I was trying to understand.