Wait, if God created everything in the Universe, then who Created God?

The people who ask "who created God?" aren't the ones you should be debating with.

Anyway, you make very valid points, and I really enjoyed reading your post. The point I'd like to bring up though is, it took an obviously intelligent person using abstract theories to give a possible answer to a single mystery about God. The problem with our idea of "God" however is that people assume they know the truth about a being that is far beyond human comprehension. Even those who don't personally know but believe in religion; they are putting their faith in other humans that tried to give all of life's biggest questions answers that could be understood by humans. The problem with the existence of God isn't so much if he/she/they/it exists, but rather that a human mind cannot grasp the possibilities of the existence of an omniscient being. Sure, anyone can try and guess, and some have much better understanding than others. But to claim to have the definitive "truth" is simple arrogance.

"If the total amount of mass-energy is limited, and the amount of usable energy is decreasing, then the universe cannot have existed forever, otherwise it would already have exhausted all usable energy the heat death of the universe."

Mass-energy may be limited, and the amount of USABLE energy may be decreasing, but that does not necessarily signify the end of the universe caused by the lack of energy to do work. The amount of energy remains the same. Total equilibrium of energy or "heat" in the universe does not mean the energy ceases to exist. It means that all things that require work as a function of energy to exist can no longer exist. However, the total amount of mass-energy will remain the same. You can state will absolute assurance that the universe has a beginning, only if you have absolute proof that the universe has an end.

"The universe requires a cause because it had a beginning"

Can we be absolutely sure that the universe had a beginning? If it has no end it has no beginning. Therefore it could have always existed. If "God" does not need a cause because He always existed, then why would a universe need a cause if it has always existed? How can we not be sure that the universe will not exist eternally in a state of equilibrium? What if the universe was not created for the purpose of human beings?

"Also, the universe cannot be self-caused nothing can create itself, because that would mean that it existed before it came into existence, which is a logical absurdity."

I agree with you there. Of course, a cause cannot be caused by itself. This is valid logic. On the other hand I do have one ponderous thought about time and God. If he caused the universes' beginning, he is a cause. Therefore, would he not be able to produce both cause and effects at His will? Time, like you've stated, "Einstein's general relativity, which has much experimental support, shows that time is linked to matter and space.", is a rate of change. However, I believe that time is a product of any type of change. Or cause and effect. Therefore, would God not be living in his own time? Whether it be constantly varying in speed or not. As he is acting or changing time passes as an effect. Time will not exist only when absolutely nothing exists, including God.

However, I am not stating with for a fact that there is not a beginning to the universe. I am simply using logic to seek the truth. However, like all humans I make mistakes because I do not know everything. I am simply using my understanding of what I "know" to produce logical explanations. Maybe there is information out there that proves the universe did begin at a certain instant and that all things in it followed.

This is a very interesting question. I like that you used logic to support your argument. That is how it should be done. And don't get me wrong. I'm not trying to disprove you here. I want the same thing you want. The truth. I have questions and I am simply trying to find the answer.

Picture that God is a guiding force that provides the forms and logic for the Big Bang to use. There is potential (the Bang) but it need actualities to aim at. A reason why there's order instead of chaos. But it's a gentle God who works by leading and persuading, not shooting lightening bolts at anybody who displeases his royal highness (an idea borrowed from the Romans I think). So things move slowly, always toward higher and more satisfying existence. After all, the universe is God's conciseness, the reality that gives him something to be conscious of.

is it possiple that God was born in a place where time does not exist only the universally ohm and there was a collision different freqenties [ sorry about the spelling] collieded at a certain level or pictch i should say that it made the first free thinking enity God. And can you imagane its first feeling was being aware of its self in this void confusion fear and loneleness . God made the universe so it was not alone when we are born in to this life we are born with pain so was God and God learned to love as we learn to love we are following in Godsway

I'm not sure, but this is my best explanation. God exists because the universe exists. If God did not exist, nothing would exist. Since nothing is nothing, God created God so that something is something.

And if not Christian you cannot got into a whole different tangent to views with science and/or other belief systems thrown in. Gets fun ponder events like this. Probably better to worry about where we are going and the present.

Good post though...

What an intelligent person.

There's a variable, however. God has a purpose because he is not a force, but at least that is what I come to believe.

God is not a force, he thinks. He makes decisions. He does as he pleases. Therefore, since he is alive and makes decisions, he does things. He has action and movement, and behind each movement and action is a purpose.

However, I don't know everything, and I don't know as much as you do. You may have already thought about this.

But what a riveting conversation. It's great to have an intelligent person make such an intelligent statement.

UNLESS either the 1st or 2nd laws of thermodynamics are incorrect in this instance, in which case the universe did not necessarily have a "beginning", and therefore did not have a "cause" and the entire argument falls apart of it's own wordy weight.

It is the assumption that the God created the universe based on the texts available to us, the reality has to be unearthed by the able minds of civilized society without any prejudice.

Interesting thinking, Ive heard it before. The only thing thats missing is motive...WHY would something existing outside of time and space, something that feels nothing, create everything? That does not add up. The only answer is is that the universe is God and the universe just always was, matter and time has no beginning and has always existed just like you think God has.

There is no reason that God would just have always existed and matter and time could not have just always been. Its silly really.

And to answer your question, obviously God exists out side of nature. So HE has no nature. We do. So why do we give a **** about HIM?