Jesus died on a cross for the sins of mankind?

I highly doubt that he did. The Romans were AVID record keepers, yet very little--if any--historical evidence exists for an individual named "Jesus of Nazareth." For a man to have performed the miracles attributed to him, I find it odd that no one was interested in him. I guarantee that if my black *ss walked on water, SOMEONE would take notice; if I raised the dead I GUARANTEE someone would wanna know about that and would ABSOLUTELY mention it SOMEWHERE!

cyberme:

we do not die because we need air, water, etc. We die because of cellular death (lack of cellular regeneration) the release of free radicals, read-write errors in DNA and RNA (nucleotides), and various other biological reasons (senescence).

And as far as your metaphor? A perfectly designed, optimum performance top of the notch state of the art Ferrari? It is fail. It, in fact, would NOT crash if it was just sitting there stationery. The overwhelming majority of accidents is caused by human error, not mechanical failure. Furthermore, a car is an inanimate object, whereas a person is a biological organism. COMPLETELY different processes are at work. A car has a carbon fiber, aluminum, and steel frame. A vertebrae has a frame of bone, calcium, and cartilage. See the unfair comparison here?

Furthermore, being indestructible is not immortal--it's invincible. Living forever is immortal. HUGE difference.

hmm... since Jesus was a perfect man he would not have gotten sick or died of "old age" (just as Adam and Eve would not had died had they not disobeyed God).

As for an accident, the point really is that Jesus death was part of God plan or purpose and as such had to mirror the pattern set before by the temple sacrifices of the Jews. Since it was his (God's) arrangement he simply protected Jesus until Jesus could make a consciouse decision to CHOOSE to allow himself to die or not.

Simply put, it was important that Jesus knew and willingly died, - if he had simply been walking along and a tree fell on him, it wouldn't have "counted" and his death would have been pointless (not achieving what he set out to do) see Matthew chapter 20 verse 28

good question though...

EDIT: Can a perfect body feel pain?

If you think of being perfect as your body doing EXACTLY what its designed to do - operating at optimum level then of course a perfect body feels pain; (maybe more accutely than an imperfect one). Pain is the bodies designed response, through the central nervous system, to the environment around it. Its a protective as well as a purely sensory measure.

To illustrate: if you put your hand in a fire, you sensory system very quickly sends signals to your brain that says "ouch - hot move hand!!" if you're body WASN'T working properly (you had some sickness or brain condition) this wouldn't happen.

Jesus body operated perfectly, it sent all the right signals to the brain - remeber humans are not designed to be made of asbestos, in other words a perfect body is not fireproof) so he felt all the sensations a perfectly designed body is meant to feel - including pain.

#QUESTION: Can a perfect body die?

That is like asking can a perfectly designed, optimum performance top of the notch state of the art ferrari ... crash?

Being perfectly designed is not the same as being immortal. Immortal means you CANNOT die, that you are "self generating" if you like, you are not dependent on any outside source for life. God is immortal, Jesus has been given immortality, humans can never be immortal because we will always need things like air, food and liquids to keep our bodies working.

So basically, being perfect does not mean you are indestructable (immortal) only that your body is a perfect model of what a human body should be, no defaults. Jesus when he was on earth was a specimen of human perfection but being human if a big rock fell on his head, he'd have died and if he was nailed to a stake, denied liquids, beaten severely his internal organs would be damaged, his breathing would be restricted and his bodily system would eventually break down and he would die.

The Lord Jesus Christ is fully God who took on flesh and dwelt on earth. He was sinlessly perfect and gave Himself as a substitutionary sacrifice by shedding His blood and dying on the cross. He then came back from the dead. This was to pay for all sins (past, present, future) for all who believe. (II Corinthians 5:21; Hebrews 2:9; Titus 2:14; Hebrews 10:10-14; Hebrews 9:12-28; Acts 13:38-41; I Peter 2:24; I John 3:5)

Well, there's nothing in the original Hebrew bible (source of christians NT) about god incarnate or the son of god dieing for sin. And the messiah wasn't even supposed to suffer, so that would be biblically better. And sacrifice wasn't even necessary for 'sin removal' for the Hebrew people. It was a commandment, one of many to be done to restore earth to paradise. Anyway, Christians believe it must be a sacrifice.

Why god, who supposedly set he rules in the first place, would make a blood sacrifice a requirement to get people to haven I can't imagine. A blood sacrifice gets you to heaven. There's a moral message for you.

If jesus was god, how could he forsake himself? Is forsaking 'good'? No, no it's not. So how can someone claim the christian god is good?

When He died, He didn't just die a natural death; but as He hung on the cross the cumulative guilt of the entire human race was placed upon Him by God the Father, to the extent that the Bible says "He (God) made Him (Jesus) who knew no sin, to become sin on out behalf, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him. (II Corinthians 5:21).

That is why as He hung on the cross He cried out "My God, My God, Why have You forsaken Me?"

God did forsake Him - but then He raised Him from the dead.

Because he didnt need to be on earth anymore he served God and helped those in need and preached to all those that God wanted jesus to preach and help. Basically God was fullfilled with jesus and pleased so the last thing he needed jesus to do was the sacrifice for our sins. Jesus didnt need no more to be on earth becuase he already tought his family the true gospel and word of God to spread to others, the apostles needed to take over what jesus left behind. And from then on his word still lives so it was a success, jesus' purpose was to speak the truth to spread to others and it was spread there was no need but the sacrifice to ultimately fullfill his purpose. Also remember that christ not only is still with us today but he also ressurected for further more info to teach his family and prove his fictory over death. To answer your additional question; Jesus had to be God to take our sins and he had to be a man to die, hence the ultimate sacrifice. Jesus had to bear the pain because of our sins, every single drop of pain was for us because thats how terrible sin is and jesus knew it had to be done to please God because it was the only way for God to be satisfied. God not being evil or liking pain but the fact that our sin is soooo bad that pain was acceptable for him to not turn his face on us. So we could be acceptable to God through what jesus went through and died for.

There had to be a way for blood to be shed.

Which brings into question the entire rising of the Roman Empire as a means culminating the events preceding the crucifixion...

...actually, I'm not sure if I worded that correctly...

I suffer terribly from Spoonerisms now and then

no! because, they use to offer lambs in the OT and they never use to allow them to die but use to kill them for the remission of sins, so, NO, if Jesus would have died due to something else, there wouldn't have been any atonement

No because man put Him on the cross and He accepted it. An accident or old age would not have allowed him to GIVE UP His life.

God needed a blood sacrifice. He was the Son of God and man. Perfect and a normal man.