Still think fake "shamans" aren't hurting anyone?

Thanks Kanien for opening up the eyes of all non-native people wanting some contact with shamans got to give a star for this one ayee!!!!! I have argued many times against these types of people! They are as fake as they come and you are right they sure do attack "Real" native people for telling them what they are doing is wrong!...We don't have "SHAMAN"! and our people do not (and hear me well) do not go out telling people what they are and what they do let alone charge a price!....I get so tired of these newagers and wannabe's who combine every religion or spirituality they get involved with to make it their own!...I also get pissed off when my "Own" people who do this...sell off our teachings for a money! What we hold is dear to us...I don't take someones beliefs and make it my own...I was born and raised to know mine!.....I have read where some people (non-native) who wanted to do their own sweat paid money to this make believe Jackass...figured they would draw more heat by putting up plastic tarps...One died and the others almost died!....crystals and BS!...It just gets to me! thanks again my friend for exposing this so that people who think we "Natives" are racist for speaking the truth!

Their appeal is often to the well meaning and good hearted person who sees them as being a way to bring people together by blending the "wisdom" of many peoples together. These people they target are also those who are most often ignorant of very basic things about the various religions/cultures that are being misrepresented/hijacked. What those gullible victims don't realize is that these fake shaman have anything BUT wisdom or respect and genuine brotherhood. It is distressing that these culture vultures often preach how much they respect others while simultaneously displaying utterly DISrespectful behavior and at the SAME time manage to project in accusation their bigoted behavior ONTO the person who calls them on their bigotry....whether or not it is a native person.

I'm NOT native and I'm not a wannabe. Yet more than once I've also been the target of harassment because I spoke out against the bigotry of a claim of entitlement to misrepresent and misappropriate any and all aspects of various native First Nation's spiritual paths, symbolism or history.

If you truly RESPECT another people you do NOT misrepresent that people! Moreover, it is certainly NOT bigoted for ME ( a white) or ANY other person Native or NOT to call someone on their falsehood if they have misrepresented themselves as a "shaman", naming a particular North American Native Nation people and particular Native spirit.

I've nothing against Shaman or Shamanism. I do not choose to follow animist beliefs, I am a monotheist. I have a problem when people misrepresent Shaman, actually. I have as much respect for the right of a real Shaman to not have their path/history/culture misrepresented as I do for the Indigenous Nations of the Americas.

I do have a problem with anyone who misrepresents the ways of another people..for EITHER a profit (monetarily) or for personal gain of having some sort of control or influence over another or a group of people.

Thank you for sharing that link.

It is a great example of someone obviously trying to defend their sense of entitlement to misrepresent themselves as being a part of a people they are not in order to also misrepresent that people for some sort of personal gain.

I met one of these white guys pretending to be an Native American two weeks ago ... he was a freakin embarrassment ... I new more about the healing arts then he did and he was taking people on to try and help them ...

The funny thing ... real shamans do not want to be called shamans ... so that is the first red flag ... anyone who refers to themselves as shamans or a medicine man/woman ... run !

Please do not lump all Shamans together ... especially do not lump these white wannabe with the real Native American healers ... there are some wonderful people doing some great work ... i know of one I have become very good friends with.

Unfortunately that is true of many of the new agers and some others who "play" that they are part of some group that they are not.

If I understand you correctly, you say it is impossible for a non native to be taught any of the spiritual ways. Please correct me if I misunderstood you.

If so that I misunderstood and it is possible how can someone tell if the person is honest?

Does it have to do with the money and power that they have over others?

Also is it possible hat a non-native recognizes and follows teachings of a particular spirit that is native recognized?

What if the person does not make money or teach others?

I know shaman is not a native term and it is commonly used for other practices that are not meaning the particular act or way of dealing with spirits but what should they use as a term so others can understand what they are talking about? Native cultures are complicated and with all the different languages among them, is there another term that would be more appropriate for common understanding among Americans or anyone who speaks only English?

How can someone learn real information?

What if they do not live near a place where they can have much contact but are interested?

EDIT: I am still confused after your addition. You state you know the differance, and if they can be accepted by the culture or tribe where they state they have learned fron then they are real so that answers that it is possible.

The fakes in your link claim a fantasy tribe and some BS about healing but that is still different from shamanism. A shaman does not necessairly have to be a healer, it is a practice and way of interacting with spirits outside of the physical world. That is why I ask the questions I do, I would like to know how to find if a person that does not claim to be a healer or member of a native culture is real. He refuses to teach stating it is not his place. He states he learned some things that he was told he would need from a native but does not say much else about it other than he did not ask to be taught but it is something personal that he keeps active in his life and is only to use it for the purpose he was taught.

He seems to follow what you say a native would but he is not and does not claim to be native. He stated to always ask questions and do not trust anyone blindly including himself.

I asked my questions really looking for answers and not to be controversial or provoking. For those who give TD, why is it wrong to try and understand by asking someone who is at the source. I do not want to pay for someone to give me probably fake information which is all I find where I live. I know people who have and the one person here who openly states the teachings paid for are not true is not a native.

It`s SCRIPTED but the events(mostly)are not fake. You sometimes might see a superstar adjusting his place on the mat for the other to dive,also sometimes some hits don`t combine,but these are slight parts,they don`t affect the outcome. When you see a guy like Jeff or Cara going through a ladder,well I tell you the ladder isn`t cardboard,you might see that some superstars don`t do much effort in the ring during a match,I think that`s so they can take major hits.And for the people who say it`s fake,you see soap operas and action movies on tv and you react with them,what about people actually doing in it in front of you!! It might not be 100% real,but if it`s that fake it won`t get that amount of fans worldwide.

Many of the "fake shamans" prey on others and use it for an excuse to use drugs so that they can visit the ancestors. I have heard of "fake shamans" who take a vow of "do not harm" and yet they go around preying on people and abusing people they have pledged to protect. I haven't met a "fake shaman that I like."

Wholeheartedly agree.

Also, someone above me is also correct when he said that there are also non native shamans, mostly Celtic, and not to be confused with Whites posing as Indian medicine people.

Wow, another ploy to get money from people by harping on their fears and irrational desires. This is no different to me than what any other religion has ever done. Why is it different when its called scientology, mormon or the namenhah or whatever then when its called christianity. It does the same thing,

Sunray Meditation Society

Well so do the trips to/people at Lourdes, but I don't see much b*tching about that. It's all part of the placebo effect anyway, but through ignorant faith and belief people are healed (though not really by faith and belief) so doesn't that count for something?