"Ephemeral Nature" of Internet personal relationships: those formed and maintained/lost - Gone with the Wind?

,,, good question, and one which could pierce to the core of all human relationship-dynamics. firstly, I don't really know for sure how other people's live are structured [individually] in the broad spectrum of possibilities which do exist.

I've conversed with internet friends for years and years at a time ... and I've had 'in person' friends for years and years at a time ... which leads me to believe that a lot of it depends on the individual's own personality.

"par for the course" ? ... dunno, probably

the human personality seems to have evolved over millenia in the setting of extended-family and tribe-groupings of less than 100 members ... so when encountering a wider range of people, warpings happen for a lot of folks and social anxieties emerge which likely did not happen in the hunter-gatherer phase which formed most of hominid history.

internet interactions are just the latest, most fantastic extension of social possibilities ... whew!

all the above is just speculation on my part, and likely not all that original either. but hey!

I commiserate on your allusions to health-issues. It's a sobering part of life.

Classical music-people have almost universally exhibited both intelligence and compassion.

I came to Y!A in October 2006. By that time I had already been frequenting classical music chat rooms in Y! and Paltalk since the beginning of 2003. A small group of us European chatters get together every 6 months or so to share our passion for music. Some are professional musicians, some are doctors, some in other walks of life unrelated to music altogether. What binds us is our love of music and our respect and friendship for each other.

If one is careful and sensible, one can build relationships through the internet. As long as people are honest (and that's the key!) one can achieve close relationships even if no meeting in real life has happened. However, it was the desire to meet each other in real life which prompted the meetings of the Y! classical music chat room members. I now number some of those people as among my dearest and truest friends. Just under three and a half years ago, I was also fortunate enough to bump into a young lady who seemed to share many (or most) of my interests - both musical and non-musical. Unlike many of my 'cyber-friends' she was actually in the same country as me and so we met in London one day. The connection we had felt on the internet proved to be just as real face-to-face. We have been together ever since and plan to remain so. Remarkable, isn't it, that there is someone out there who will actually put up with me?

I admit I do feel a connection with some of the regular contributors here and in the private forum I founded a year or so ago (do consider re-joining, Alberich) and would love to meet up if there were some imaginary place somewhere no more than an hour's travel away from wherever on the planet anyone was. I'm sure it would be a hoot.

Some people are very transient, whether in real life or in cyber-space. That is 'par for the course' for life - of which the internet is a microcosm.

I've had a computer for nearly 10 years now and over that time I've made many acquaintances (from Norway to Brisbane and Berlin to LA) through one group or another - in most cases I would not call them friends - and I've seen them come and go. I've actually met some people in real life but with a very, very few exceptions all these aquaintanceships have been ephemeral and after a couple of years we've stopped corresponding or talking. I find people become bored with the computer, or find other interests - some even have got married! - and move on. Another, very real problem, with computer friendships is the fragile link. If someone stops replying to your emails, or contributing to a group, or chat, facebook or whatever, you don't know what has happened to them. You may only know them as 'Alberich' or 'rdenig_male'. If the id disappears you may have no means of knowing whether the person behind it is ill, or has even passed away, just changed their id, or become fed up and just moved on. You can safeguard against this by giving each other a second point of contact, a relative or workmate, to call on in the case of sudden, unexplained silences, However, with all the 100s of people I have known across the world, there has only been one where I have taken such a step

This is mostly a response to Leesha..but it should give some insight, I believe.. I'm not sure what kind of education you've received, Leesha...but there is no set role for women and men. The idea of gender is a social construct. You're being very narrow minded when you think of gender.... you think of the gender roles that were present around you while growing up. Those were the gender roles of your culture. However, there are cultures out there that you obviously haven't heard of, ones in which the women do all the work. The women bring home the bacon, and the women run the farms and do the manual labor. There is no set role for men and women. The idea of feminism promotes the idea that women should not be subservient because they are not lesser beings..they are not slaves...they are not inferior to men in any way. I'm sorry you've been educated to think they are. And I'm sorry that you obviously can't think for yourself. Anyway, as for the person who asked this question, you can always try it out. However, I don't think what she needs is someone to control her. She obviously knows she has a problem, but she's avoiding it. There's a deeper issue at hand there. You need to figure out why she's not taking any steps towards fixing these issues. You may want to consider counseling. Or figure out why it is that she engages in this passive aggressive spending behavior, and try to work on whatever the cause is. I wish you the best of luck, and I hope you find a relationship style that fits you best. :)

Hello!

I don't know how to start this off so I'll just jump right in... I have always been one to form faster internet relationships than relationships made in person. My whole life I've been shy, so much that when I was a kid the doctor told my parents I was probably developmentally challenged (I wasn't and am not, though). I still have trouble seeming friendly and outgoing to people I talk to in real life, and although I have made friends it took me over four years to form a serious relationship with both (yes, only two) of them. These friendships have lasted since they were formed and I'd like to believe that they'll last until we die.

As for internet relationships and your question, though, I have had a lot of experience meeting people online. I wish I could say that it was a great way to meet a lot of nice people that I've made lasting friendships with, but I'd be lying. It is true that there are many similar to me, kind, and funny people that I've talked to and have had such amazingly thought-provoking and memorable conversations with. But none of these relationships have really lasted. There are many people I have met, talked to and considered friends, but you are right when you say that most of them blow away with the wind. They, for the most part, are like a snowflake - they are nice as they float down from the sky, but just melt away once they hit the ground. People move on, or move away, or just move on to the next website. It's just too unpredictable to form any serious bonds.

As for relationships on Y!A, I don't really have any. I just recently joined through my sister's old account and am still trying to make it my own. Most of my internet friendships have come as 'friend of a friend' bonds made via email and msn, or through other websites like youtube, etc. I'm still trying to find my way trough Yahoo!

In conclusion, I have no regrets for the friendships that I've made and lost via the internet, for I am a believer in the saying, "It's better to have had and lost than to never have had at all" (or some variation on that...). I appreciate the conversations and laughs we've had, but these friendships just don't last forever. When it comes to relationships, I have to admit that they're easier to form through the internet, but the ones that will last and I'll cherish are the ones made in person, no matter how long it takes to secure the bond.

Thank-you for your thought-provoking question! Be safe,

Angelica

I pretty much agree with everything that has been said so far, there have been many truthful- and lovely- things said. It's a question that is very appropriate these days, too.

My computer use is "episodic". When I was working night shift, I used it a lot, because I couldn't sleep at night on my days off.

The last time I was online in any measureable amount, I used MySpace, and chatted in the international rooms on ICQ.

I mention Maria Callas on mine, and one day I got a very nice message from a young woman- I believe people when they specify an age and gender, or at least enter into a "willing suspention

of disbelieve"- who had some questions about Ms. Callas. She ended it by saying she realized it was a long shot to expect a reply.

We wrote back and forth, and read and appreciated each others blogs for about a year, then we drifted apart. It makes me a little, oh, I think nostalgic and melancholy, but I am very grateful to have met her.

There was another woman I had begun corresponding with when a member of her family died quite suddenly. I had had a similar thing happen to me not long before that to, and she allowed me the privilege of walking through her grief with her. We drifted apart eventually, but it was a very healing experience for me, and I hope for her.

I haven't gotten to the point of really making friends here, partly due to my sporadic use of these forums, I'm sure. There are several people I am coming to like, though, and I hope these contacts will evove into friendships.

To make this long story short, I think of internet friendships as friendshios, but like friendships in 'real life', people do tend to drift apart sometimes (many times?).

Alberich, I am sorry to hear that you have serious health problems. I do think that people who have internet friends should have a contact person in forums like this especially to communicate for you if you become too ill to write, or die. I will send a prayer to my Higher Power for you.

Reader- who or what is Molly??

Thank you for the question- it was very thought provoking.

Edit:

Reader: Aha, I suspected as much, but mules "kick as*" as far as I'm concerned. Haven't met one yet that wasn't that way, though, so don't take it to heart : ). Just don't stand behind her...

I can't really speak to whether it is par for the course because I've only had my computer for about a year and a half and it took almost six months for me to start forming anything that could be considered a friendship.

Still, I consider several people on Y!A to be friends and I communicate with a couple of them pretty regularly both on and off the board. I'll tell you the story of a few of them which have come and gone or, in at least one case, are hopefully simply on hiatus.

One fairly casual friend I lost to another "real world" friend when the actual relationship deteriorated beyond repair. I don't bemoan any part of that circumstance. People are not always what they appear to be at first blush and it is good to learn that sooner than later.

Another relationship was interesting in that I wasn't quite sure what I thought of the little girl genius who asked me to beta read her fiction. She interested me, she even reminded me of myself at her age, with the exception of the fact that she was very ambitious and I never have been. Still, I thought her arrogant and somewhat overbearing. I did do a little reading for her though, and one day she wrote saying she would send more in a day or two. I didn't hear another word for at least six months and when I did it was only on the Y!A board. She has openly poo-pooed the reality of online relationships and I do not mourn the loss of her company either.

Another woman and I talked almost daily for several months and then she got a new job while simultaneously losing her computer access. She said she'd be back in a month or so. I have never heard from her again and I miss her a lot. SuperMinion, if you're out there, I hope all is well. I'd love to hear from you.

For about a year my favorite person and best friend in the world was a Y!A user. We both worked nights and we got in the habit of IMing overnight on the weekends while he was at work. That relationship was very important to me, too important I guess. It's either essentially over or it is taking one hell of a break. I miss it, but that's okay. Even if it's gone its value in my life is undiminished and I will never regret it.

These days I have two friends with whom my relationship has steadily grown. It isn't a daily thing but it is regular and I truly believe that we all consider each other important and valuable. I can see there being ups and downs in closeness but I think we'll stay in touch. There are some others who pop in and out and I am always very happy to hear from them. I also just recently struck up a new friendship as well as a couple of possibles. Only time will tell how long those will last but I am certainly enjoying them for now.

Which brings me to the point of my main philosophy of life. A thing does not have to be permanent to be valuable. Many friends have come and gone throughout the years but each has contributed to my life and even to who I am. In any relationship I try to seize the day and value the person for what they are able to offer. I can be saddened by a loss but a memory still brings me joy.

And now that I have written you a small book, I will go away and feed Molly a carrot. She walked right up and let me pet her for a moment yesterday, without a bribe in sight, so I feel I am making progress.

***Edit) Thank you, Alberich, you are most certainly more than welcome!

Yes, Molly is entirely real, in all her curmudgeonly glory. The chicken is real too, but I have no particular desire to make friends with a chicken.

*** It's funny that you should say that about posting a picture. I was just out walking around the property a bit and wishing I had a camera so that I could do just that. Alas, I'm broke, so it's a futile dream.

I feel a little sorry for the chicken, since it must be hard to be an only hen, and I do bring her scraps on occasion, but my heart isn't in it. I used to be scared of chickens and I still don't like them much. I can certainly understand your distaste, all things considered.

Dear Alberich,

Greetings from a countryside retreat! I shall pray that some of your 'regulars' will read/answer your question---or at the very least, contact you in some way.

I suppose the nature of all relationships can be fragile, temporary, and at times---only for a season. I read that somewhere? recently & it resonated with me. I recently had a lengthy real-world close friendship just go away, evaporate if you will. I didn't and don't understand.

I am still pretty new to Y!A and we have only recently connected. When I return home we can have a longer chat by e-mail.

All shall be well, Julian of N

I am afraid that I will start to blab on about nothing in my answer, so please do excuse me if I do... This is such a thought provoking question and I just have to answer, but I do not really know where to begin.

Friendships are such strange things....

People can be friends with people who are *seemingly* completely different to themselves, people of different ages, genders, races etc, and even with complete strangers on the internet.

Who would have thought that I would consider you a friend? You are sixty years older than me, and you live on the other side of the world, but I consider you as much a friend as some of the people I see everyday. Perhaps some would see that as disturbing... but it is not. If you were to stop posting on here suddenly, I swear I will be posting emails to you everyday until I get a reply from you (or somebody else :'( <--- sad face )... I do hope it never comes to that though...

(Alberich, you know what is really strange... I have a (non-internet) friend who shares your name (obviously not Alberich) and age, and also loves classical music (although his favourite composer is Liszt not Wagner...) I just realised this, and I am now creeped out!)

I guess that one must take certain precautions on the internet, particularly when interacting with other people... usually I will not give out my email, or any self-identifying information, but here on the classical forum of Y!A, I have come to know all of the regulars, and know that you are all trustworthy people, and I do not think of any of you as scary pedophiles..

Alberich, you are not an old fuddy duddy! I have never thought of you as such, but perhaps that is because of my own fuddy duddy-ness?

I am a rather sensitive person, but at the same time I lack sensitivity... which is perhaps better described as my emotions control my actions and I "DO" without thinking. In all my friendships, whether online or not, I am frank, and sometimes I say or do something (without meaning to insult anyone) and I hurt people that I really do admire and respect. Later, I will realise that what I said was wrong, and I will feel awful about it.... and then I feel bad, so much that I will cry and wish I could just think about what I say, but then I think "I cant change who I am..." and that depresses me more. Usually saying sorry is a sufficient apology, but sometimes it takes more than that, and sometimes it is never alright......

but that works both ways, when somebody says something hurtful to me, I get upset.

and can honestly say that I get as upset by my relationships online as I do in life... but my online relationships are just as "fulfilling." I think I use Y!A just so I can talk to people about the things that interest me without feeling weird...

After a rather hurtful comment from a close friend, I realised that I am weird... and I cannot change that. I cant even relate to them anymore, they talk about "usual" things like music (not music that I like), TV, and movies... and then I want to talk about serious things, and they just look at me as if I am stupid.....

I have now come to the realisation that I "cannot talk about things that others are ignorant about because they will think I am a snob and hate me." but with all of you online friends her on Y!A I dont need to do that, because you all know what I am talking about and are not ignorant... Sometimes I resent my friends........

You know, I cant believe I am saying this...

So I will stop know

Hope you are well,

MissLimLam

Hi Alberich,

You've had some wonderful answers so far - I agree particularly with Julian when she says that all relationships - not just Internet ones - are fragile, potentially ephemeral...

I've been a YA regular for over a year now. Before that, I had little to do with the internet. My daughter has been an internet addict for a few years now, and she has a wide network of internet friends, some of whom are as important to her as her "flesh and blood" friends here in Adelaide.

Once upon a time I couldn't understand how my daughter could become so involved with her "cyber-pals" (I admit I used this rather disparaging term back then.) She'd have the occasional tiff with one of her pen-pals, and it'd affect her as badly as a disagreement with any of her "real" friends would.

Anyway, over this last year, I have frequented the Classical forum here, and made a number of friends - I've become especially close to three people here, and I consider them to be REAL friends...including you, of course, Alberich. You people are not merely potentially ephemeral "cyber-pals," but real people, who I care very much about. We've shared a lot of personal stuff, bared our souls, entrusted secrets...we communicate regularly via email, and you all feel as tangible to me as any of my "flesh and blood" pals here in Adelaide.

All of my friendships tend to be intense, honest, exhausting in many ways...that's the way I am...I hate superficiality, I'm cr@p at small-talk. I don't get close to many people, but when I do trust someone enough to deem them a REAL friend, then that person is a friend for life. (Indeed, most of my best "flesh and blood" pals are people I've known for most of my life - I went to high school with two of them, back in the Dark Ages!)

And if I have a disagreement with any of my friends - internet or otherwise - it hurts like hell...

Hafwen x