If you are loving, spiritually, you are gentle and gracious, is there a point when you must still walk away?

Perhaps there are no spiritual leaders, but only people with different points-of-view who may allow you to see events in a different light.

Love does not and never fails. Some people learn to express their love in a clearer or more open manner than others. Misinterpretation of any communication is usually a problem between both parties, and not just one of the people involved.

None of us was born into a perfect family in a perfect neighborhood and educated by perfect teachers with perfect students and had perfect friendly peers. Most of us were ignored, kept ignorant, fed misinformation and deceptions, picked upon, manipulated and even abused to some degree. Generally speaking, we were not taught to clearly express our personal thoughts and feelings or how to do this. We are left to muddle through our lives.

Keep in mind that in one way or another we are all damaged goods. We also tend to be attracted to people who can possibly help us, even if we do not know how we are damaged or what kind of help we need.

When any relationship is in trouble both parties must want to fix it in order for any improvement to take place. We can only change ourselves. Your options might be limited by two extremes -- Either learn to communicate with each other or walk your separate ways. The options in between usually end in a variation of what you have already tried.

If communication is the problem, then talking to each other might not help. At least without another person present. A trusted friend would work, but a trained counselor might be even better (especially if he has severe problems with self esteem and tends to see everything as a put down or an attack).

We do not chose those we love. We do chose those we spend our time with. We also often chose how we spend that time.

Put the past disagreements and experiences where they belong -- in the past. They are nothing but memories which can help or hurt your perceptions and experiences now.

Can you both agree that you have a problem?

Can you both agree that the other is important in your life?

Can you both agree that something needs to change to allow yourselves a better life?

Can you both agree that each of you can only change yourself?

Can you both agree that you will get outside help if it is needed?

Can you both agree that you need to make decisions together?

One does not need to be surrounded by spiritual people to grow. By helping each other, we tend to grow spiritually. Sharing does not require anyone to give or anyone to take.

Unconditional love is the ultimate form of sharing.

Edit:

"We did counseling, I want to put the past behind the patterns are still there."

Did one of you give up?

If the counseling did not work, perhaps you need a different type of counseling or a different counselor. Problems that take decades to develop and practice will not be solved in a few weeks.

But it does take two to have a relationship. If only one see any benefit, then it might be only a matter of time before the behavior of one pushes the other away.

If both of you cannot make a commitment to solve your mutual problems, then the relationship is already over except for the formality of one of you moving out and into a different location.

Sometimes, despite our best efforts, a meaningful relationship becomes an unsolvable puzzle. We are left in the dark as to what we can do to improve communications or sharing.

Addition:

At 39 or even at 59, your life is not over. If this current relationship cannot be saved because one of you no longer wants to spend the time or effort to fix it, this does not mean that you cannot find someone else who IS willing to enter into a loving, sharing relationship (or for them to find you).

When one stops beating their own head against a wall, it should not be surprising that some of the pain stops. We do what we can. When that is not enough, we must do something different if we want a change in our lives.

I beg you to read your question very closely for your answers are in there and you are the one who can find them. I suggest you also write more, write it here or in private. Getting your thoughts down for you to look at is worth more then all our answers. eg I see you have created laws for him. Truly the oppressors have given us enough laws. I would revisit the ones you have placed on him. Yes yelling and drinking are appalling behavior but.... there is another way and you my dear friend must think if they are reasonable from his perspective. Often all they do is cause more pressure on an already pressurized situation. You have to find the cause of problems and allow the individual to have their choice. If you remove choice then there can be no respect.

You know what I like? I really like the questions "why, what where when how who which?". eg Why are you yelling at me about this, for this is a little thing, what else contributes to your frustration?

edit: Don't get taken away by other peoples life experience, they are not you or living your life. It is your life, your experience, you have the choice, your experiences are your lessons to learn from and grow.

Ask what is the reason I created a life with this man? If you can't even have a reasonable discussion with him then ask him WHY? question question.... get to the root of the problem. Maybe you are simply not really in love, that could be the root. But if you know the root is good then maybe you need to cut it back to that and start again.

A relationship should help build each other up not tear each other down.

No one has all the answers that is why we have experiences.

I have been free of such a controlling and abusive relationship as you describe for 2 years. They will turn everything around so that it is your fault, they do not take any responsibility for their actions, they refuse to compromise and agree to such reasonable requests as you have made. Their clever manipulation will make you think you are in the wrong and what can you do to help make things better. I tried for many years and in the end, for the children's sake and my own, and also to free him from the vicious cycle he had created, I left. You cannot help someone unless they are willing to help themselves. Your partner has issues obviously, but it is not your responsibility to have to endure the abuse that follows. You have obviously tried to work this out, but they will fight you all the way. My ex only needed to drink 3 or 4 cans and his personality altered almost immediately and made all our lives hell. When you are bullied like you describe, however subtle it may be, it is time to leave. Unless he will go to to counselling and therapy... but even then you are left to deal with the effects, and it may be wise to leave and see if he will do the necessary therapies in order to be able to behave reasonably and provide you all with a stable environment... and if not you don't return. The children need good role models otherwise they will either copy his attitude when older or end up being abused too. And their wish is to see you happy, which makes them happy.

Your love is not failing him or both of you, and your ''rules'' as someone else called them are NOT unreasonable. Perhaps I have more clarity as I have lived through it! Your self esteem has taken a bashing, mentally, emotionally and in other ways too maybe.

You are thinking along the right lines by writing here, and if you were sure of the relationship these questions would not have arisen... take this as an alarm bell, and take action my sister!

Bright Blessings of clarity and love and peace

Namaste

Wow, you have received some nice and mature answers here. I will only add one little thing.

If someone takes everything as a put-down even when it is not, they must have received many put-downs early in life, probably from parents or elder siblings. Something like that.

They just expect it and even though it isn't there, they try to force it to be or imagine it to be because it gives them some sense of security just like they had in their family. Trying to recreate the past. Living in the past.

To get out of that they really have to make some effort on the spiritual side, to overcome their improper focus on the present or their misinterpretations and their mistrust of everyone and their imagining the present person to be the past person.

They have to come into the present by any means, perhaps by counselling or therapy but certainly by increasing the spiritual life and decreasing attachment to the material life.

Love is union. It's as natural as the chemical bonding of two atoms. Any time two things come together in union it is an act of love, however great or small. Some people do indeed seem to be capable of more love than others in a social, emotional, romantic, or spiritual sense. I think a lot of it has to do with how much that person has been loved. It's a lot easier to grow in love when those who are around you love you.

First of all my thoughts and prayers go out to you,because from experince I have gone through similar situations.

But until he comes to terms that he has a alcohol addiction he will never change his behavior. I myself have a drug addiction and lived with an alocholic all my life,my father was one and my husband of 23 years was one. And all i was doing was enabling my husband always there when he was falling, he got to the point he took me for granted that no matter what I would be there and I was. So why should he change. Until the day I left and was'nt there to catch him when he fell.

We were separated for 2 years, almost divorced,because until he got help and was serious about his life, I was done with this life style. I guess what I am trying to say is you have to set things you will and will not tolerate, and there has to be consequences behind the negative behaviours.

Good Luck

Why does love have to be weak ?

Kindness, gentle, patience, gracious, loving

always genuine sincerity...and I'll add temperance and humility

All virtues...all necessary and good stuff

BUT

life is full of fine "Razor's edge" thin lines

What about strength, courage, tenacity

A backbone, confidence

Some cultures respect strength, admire it

And many if not most people do

WHEN IT SUITS THEM

Give me a feisty, tenacious, strong , confident

woman any day of the week, or man for a friend

and keep them on your side

I won't back down is a wonderful part of the human condition

It has kept us alive for thousands of years

You can't expect to create love in your own image and likeness

And who ever said there wouldn't be conflicts in life.

You can't come to an agreement

You won't back down...they won't back down

Maybe your just quitting cause you think your right

And like Cartman on South Park "Screw you guys I am going home"

Your leaving in your gentle, kind , gracious way

TO WIN THE ARGUEMENT ??????

Just a thought

Namaste

I read this question and a previous one with great interest.

I believe a lesser person would have walked out of such a situation without a backward glance...into the arms of one he/she truly loves!

That you are taking such a long, painful route...giving everyone a chance to prove and improve themselves, shows what stuff you are made of! I think such creatures are rare these days!

Your turmoil stems from your inability to deals with an alcoholic husband who has anger issues to compound the matter further. I feel if you are feeling strangulated and suffocated in this situation then you should get out...before its too late!

Many times we go on thinking about a matter and right moment slips out of our hands and we get stuck in the mire...never to come out again!

Just make sure your reasons for doing so are very clear in my mind! That you are doing it to save your soul/spirit...not for the pull of another love that may or may not turn right!

Find the strength within you! Do not bank on someone else! After that whatever has to happen will happen!

Blessings!

You are a strong person...we can all see it in your words. You are doing everything humanly possible to compensate for his uneven playing field. You are in touch with your spirit and working on the relationship with a foundation of honesty, love and humility...the key ingredients to make any relationship work. You are reaching where he is still in the dark.

This is your life so anything we say to give any sort of advice can't be exact because only you can know exactly where you are coming from. I sense that if an opportunity arises for you to find emotionally healthier circumstances you would be kind to yourself and your kids to take it. However, that being said, you told us that he has made significant improvements. Habits are hard to break...but the question is if you still have any energy left to mend his 'broken cup'. You have a hard earned gift of recognizing the roots of problems and fixing them from the inside out. It would be unfortunate for him to lose a light like that.

There are parallels between the relationship you are in and the one I am in. I wish you all the best. Love and light to you Jena. You are in my thoughts and prayers.

There is love and then there is being mushy. *grins* The best policy is to live for yourself and not revolve your life around some thing or someone else. So many people put all their life into something and then when that something is not there anymore, they curl up and die. Having a mate as you call it, is an equal partnership you should not treat it like a competition.

And so very often we fail in our relationships because we expect too much from people. When they are not jumping to our tune we pick a fight and slowly but surely push them away. This august it is our 30th anniversary, and the secret is to learn to leave each other be. :)

Practicing Shaman... quantum physics rocks.

By saying you ask the spiritual leaders, you put off us mere ordinary folk from answering, but a thought came to me...

Is he a cup that holds your love or is he broken glass?

From your answer, it seems like he sees himself as the broken glass. Can the broken glass return to being the cup. It's possible, but difficult. You can offer him help, praise, encouragement, but the process or reconstruction he must carry out himself. It could take a while... how patient are you? But if he truly loves you, then he will learn to love himself also, and so better show that love for you.

Another thought..... we must take responsibility for our own feelings and actions, so there's never any question of "losing control"... if there's something you say he doesn't like ask him to *pause* and address it with you directly at that moment, calmly and rationally. Ultimately he is in control of his choices, and you are of yours, including whether you stick it out... you can pause before you make that choice, as you are doing now, and then he can do the same... and in that moment of pausing, I hope you find "another way".