Do you think that the proliferation of pornography is a reaction to feminist thought? See details?

Hmm. Couple comments off the top of my head...

Well, to my way of thinking, your two premises--about the Elizabethan poetry and modern day porn--are very closely connected.

Most of the poetry you refer to was written by men and intended to be read by men, and porn is basically made by men and intended for them as well. I'm generalizing, I know, but the point is that that until recently (and it still happens if I want to be mean about it) men have historically held the view of women strictly as opposites--as either whores or virgin/mother, as animals or obediant servants. Jezabel vs. Mary, in other words.

Poetry rhapsodized about the virtues of women or villified them, and neither picture was accurate, and both devalued women, just as I think modern porn does, and neither paint an accurate portrait of women, nor do men or women any credit at all.

The poetry then and today's porn also, I think, serve as a subtle punishment, an instinctive male reaction to the increasing emergence of women as powerful entities in their own right. I don't mean that to sound like some kind of femi-nazi BS, but I think it is true that today's porn has grown more perverse towards women--the facials and gang bangs and that--in direct proportion to modern women's increasing independence as sexually aggressive creatures in their own right. If I want to really mean about it, I could say that the more 'man-like' women become in expressing their sexual appetites, the more the porn industry--just as happened with Elizabethan poetry--has had to retaliate by belittleing women.

That all said, I also think that the porn industry is making **** up as they go along. All that I spewed above is all well and good for BSing feminist theory and all, but doesn't factor in that porn--like the fashion industry--invents its own fads to keep the money rolling in. Just like you said, I don't think men came up with the idea of some of the nasty junk that you see in porn out of conscious desire to oppress or humiliate women in retaliation for blah blah blah, I think they get ideas in their heads because they're exposed to a certain level of nasty and it takes more nasty to hold their interest.

OK, I'm stepping away from the lecturn now..... :-)

I would say that porn is more common simply because sexual mores have changed enough that people are no longer ashamed to be known to read/watch it resulting in a step up of production. The basic Law of Supply and Demand means that as long as people want something other people will produce and distribute it, what many people can't seem to grasp is that the demand comes first, no one would go to the trouble to produce something if they didn't know it would sell.

If you look at cultures not influenced by Puritanism you'll see that the celebration of human sexuality has a long and world wide history, it was only in certain areas that erotic literature and art was driven underground, and as the Puritans lose political power those things make a come back. You seem to miss the point that porn is about fantasy not reality, it is natural that in someone's fantasy life he, or she, would be the center of attention, so I don't see that it is sending any kind of message. If the parents are so neglectful of their kids emotional and sexual upbringing that they must learn everything they know from porn that is hardly the fault of the porn industry, that is the fault of the parents.

If you find out what causes the really sick and degrading porno, please let the world know. It goes very far back, there are images from the 16th century which would turn you stomach.

Here's an interesting factoid re: porn & politics: It is widely thought that Catherine the Great "did it" with a horse or a bull. This is a complete fabrication of the English media at the time, England was in conflict with Russia and it was standard practice to caricature heads of state in the popular press. The most depraved thing they came up with was to accuse her of bestiality

I don't know whether that was because she was a powerful woman specifically; there are folk songs from around that time claiming that various figures from politics and the nobility were up to sexual shenanigans of one type and another

I think that it's all about power, always has been, but I don't know about a single historical catalyst. I do know that the degradation of women hasn't gone away and it makes most of the men I know just as uncomfortable as it does the women; the market for the sick stuff must be small but wealthy to keep it afloat.

I think that makes a lot of sense, actually. In fact, I believe that when someone asked Nina Hartley about that infamous scene of Rocco Siffredi flushing Kelly Stafford's head in the toilet during anal, she replied that men in our society often feel emasculated and disempowered by women in today's society, and that porn gives them a way of psychologically getting back.

Of course, I don't think that's all of it. I think that there is also the idea that boundaries have to keep being pushed in order to make things more exciting, and the fact that BDSM and rough/extreme sex has become more acceptable in our society, so that more performers into it (both male and female) are able to do it onscreen (whereas before it was seen as too risque).

I did not call you whiney but I did call you ignorant because many of your premises are incorrect. How is it you don't know that porn has been around in one form or another(s) almost since we first came down from the trees we had been swinging on. I agree with much of what you say, just wish you had articulated it better.

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How old is the Kama Sutra. Thousands? Some people would consider it pornograpy, while others would see it as a self-help book. Which is right, and why? There will always be disagreement.

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As others have correctly pointed out its the changing technology that has allowed easy access to all kinds of "porn" in many different formats. Easier access and greater variety has led to huge growth in $; its a multi-billion dollar industry. There are more generic markets, there are niche markets. These products are available to suit any "taste". This includes porn that humiliates and degrades women. Porn has ALWAYS been around in one form or another.

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In order to get sensible answers you needed to have defined your terms: what it is you mean "pornography"in the first place? If you want to discuss a matter where sociological concepts are used then you need to define and use the correct terminology. AS IT STANDS NOW, your premises are wrong, you haven't so much as picked up a book (nevermind actually taking courses) on the subject matter. You are ignorant about it, and it shows.

To begon with,, what is called "pornography" in one country (culture really) may be called "art" in another country/culture. I went to see acclaimed photographer Robert Mapplethorpe exibition in Vienna, Austria. He wasn't allowed to show his photography in the USA, the prudish (lowbrow) Americans wouldn't allow him show it here. The Americans are absolutely notorious for being way too prudish ane are ridiculed by Europeans because of it. These are 2 distinctly different cultures.

Ever watched really early silent film from the late 19th and early 20th century: that was NOT art and that was definitely PORNO.

No, the proliferation of pornography is happening largely because of the internet making it very easy to people to access porn. People no longer have to sneak into their local sex shop to get it. People can get any sort of porn they want, on demand, over the net.

Pornography is also facilitated by the global economic situation, where poor women from less well-off countries are easily trafficked and exploited. A lot of porn is made using these unfortunate women. Men use them to make porn and make profits.

Culture, religion and a sexist upbringing result in some men viewing women as garbage to be used, abused and killed. Porno that is violent is loved by sick men who relish in seeing a woman get bashed and raped beyond recognition because that's what they'd really like to do to women if they could get away with it.

Porno was around long before feminists but I agree that misogynistic men who don't want women to have any rights will jump on the MRA bandwagon and blame women for wanting equality so it gives men further reason to abuse women any way they can as revenge.

No i think its a reaction to the availability of technology to creating more porn.

I mean internet, digital cameras, etc! Everyone nowadays pretty much can could even make their own porn, if they want.

That's why it's so widely available.

There was not a technology for it earlier.

Yes. Men want to push us down but we will rise to the top. Don't be discouraged, sisters. When we run things, there will be no more porn or rape or abuse.

We will see to it that men are not in any positon to do you harm. Trust me.

Some porn is very degrading and disgusting. Im a bloke so I wiont deny that I watch porn but I only watch straight sex with 1 bloke and 1 women. The whole 5 men banging one women disturbs me to be honest.

Women still are subject to sexism and feminism has a long way to come to get proper equality for women. Something Im willing to fight for.

Just look at your answers to see why women dont have equality. Men still for some reason think they are better.