Have you seen the movie "Jesus Camp"? What did you think of it?

It brought back memories of Vacation Bible school and Christian summer camp. It almost made me puke.

But, what was most interesting is the vastly different impression I get of such activities today than I did while I was living through them. While I was at vacation Bible school and Christian summer camp, I was cluelessly having fun with my friends - like most kids. Those who were brainwashing me were "nice people" that meant me no harm and could be trusted to watch after me in my parents' absence. And, apart from the brainwashing, I was not otherwise abused. Also interestingly absent were any bullies, like are typically found when groups of children are kept together. I enjoyed vacation Bible school and Christian summer camp more than the public schools I attended.

But, as an adult, I see the insidiousness of it all - and, it makes me want to puke. But, the silver lining that surrounds this cloud of darkness is that those children are not necessarily doomed to a life of ignorance and superstition - I came out of it quite nicely. Their brainwashing techniques lost their grip on me. And, that wouldn't have happened, if Jesus had ever actually shown up. And, we can have faith that He never will. We can also have faith that the truth will always prevail for those who care about it.

Greetings Reverend Soleil:

A few thoughts. First of all I am a practicing "Unorthodox Catholic" (the derogatory term would be "Cafeteria Catholic" if you know what that means--for those who aren't familiar with the term: I believe in Jesus Christ as my Lord and personal Savior and I worship at Catholic Churches but I DO NOT kowtow to every edict the Pope and the bishops say I must follow).

Now that you know where I'm coming from, I thought "Jesus Camp" was especially foul because I saw a bunch of children being brainwashed rather than being taught about the love of Christ in their lives. In fact, two points of the movie were especially disgusting to me.

1. The fat lady telling all the kids how "God told" her that several of them act differently at school and out with their friends as opposed to when they are with their parents or at church. She said if you act differently then you are a "fraud and a hypocrite." While I do think that consistency is a virtue that children need to learn, I also know damn good and well that God did NOT reveal that information to her---ANY ADULT can tell you that kids misbehave when they think they can get away with it---but those kids DIDN'T KNOW THAT!

2. The one girl passing out religious tracts published by Jack Chick Publications. Have you ever read that bile? If you want to be offended AND get a good laugh in the process, go to a Christian bookstore sometime that still sells those things. Jack Chick preaches the kind of hatred and lies and Jesus Christ taught against.

I do want to say that I agree with Evan here and I wish to add that I find it so damn amusing (and yes, hypocritical as well) when people (some liberal, some atheist, some deist, some faithful) often tell me that my observations about certain groups of people are being painted with a "broad brush" and how I should not say that one group is "all one way or another" (which by the way, I NEVER SAY that one group of people is all one way or another--I simply observe and comment on what I see are collective traits of a group) yet I find it interesting that the Canadian Atheist and some others seem to want to paint us Christians with the same broad brush that I get accused of using by lumping all of us together with the freaks in "Jesus Camp" which if you remember, was being filmed by Catholics!

By the way Reverend, you sound intelligent. May I recommend a book to you that I've recommended numerous times on this site? It's called "My Descent Into Death" and it's written by Howard Storm who is an ex-atheist. You take it for what it is but I do think that you would find it interesting.

Have a great week!

His Utmost Excellency, the Emperor, has spoken.

Yeah, I've seen it. I found it almost impossible to watch- I watched it with a Christian friend of mine, and it took us a few hours to watch because we kept pausing it and getting all shouty about it. Both of us thought it was pretty much child abuse- that woman was terrifying those kids.

The worst bit about it, as some others have said, is that those kids cared so much about being good people. They tried so hard to be good, but that was taken advantage of and used to make them feel scared and guilty about being naughty even though all kids are naughty sometimes. It's not a healthy way to bring up children, and I would be very angry if I knew someone was telling any child of mine all that stuff. Unfortunately, the parents are actively encouraging it, because they send the kids in the first place.

Something else that I thought showed those kids were afraid was the 'speaking in tongues' bit. There were several of them saying 'lalalalalalalala' because they were expected to speak in tongues, and the fact that they felt the need to do so makes me so sad. The pressure put on those children to speak in tongues, witness to the public and act within certain parameters is shocking, and doesn't allow them the time and space to just be children.

Yes I've seen it, and not only did I make it all the way through, I watched the special features also. I was torn between the giggling of the absurdity of it and sadness for these kids that so badly want adult approval. The brainwashing was a little painful to watch, along with the GWB cardboard cutout and the military style drill formation. The kids were so passionate and adorable, it hurt to watch them so focused on this craziness. The camp is closed, but there are hundreds of camps out there just like it. Sad thought.

The adults who foster this sort of thing are criminals. Mentally ill, but criminals as well.

The criminal mind of this type seeks above all to justify itself. Here is the formula at work in the camp:

"Children are INNOCENT. They are PURE. Therefore, if children willingly accept the behavior I am enforcing on them, then it proves I AM INNOCENT AND PURE as well."

This strange twist is the same mechanism which fuels any addiction.

Normal behavior is gradually shut out, until the addict lives in a bubble where addiction and its protocol are the only form of behavior.

Jesus Camp's counselors are the moral equivalent of the drug dealer who hangs around grade-school playgrounds offering kids a "free high", or the pedophile who tantalizes children with a 'secret". Or the terrorist who sends children and pregnant women to their deaths as human bombs. Utterly self-serving. Utterly devoid of conscience.

What is more, the indoctrination shown in the film, based as it is on "Spiritual Values" is somehow even more frightening than the spectacle of Hitler Youth or the Red Guards. There, at least, the children made their transference toward some physical entity and philosophy (inevitably directed toward persecution of others). Here, the bait is communion with The Divine -- which renders the exercise and its apotheosis even more obscene.

I saw it a while back, and mostly I just remember feeling sad. I've read lots and lots of way out there fundamentalist pathological ranting and raving that I can't say it surprised me at all. If you've read To Train Up a Child and other fundamentalist "parenting" manuals, then "Jesus Camp" is nothing new. Unfortunately.

One can only hope that at least some of these kids will begin to think for themselves some day.

Unfortunately anyone in America can become a preacher, and with the associated power and credence many take pastoral care into their own hands and to an extreme. I watched on YouTube once and raised alarms, its right and proper it has been closed down. Whilst the western child, woefully emotionally malnourished and spiritually impoverished requires strong leadership and mentoring it is cruel to mentally abuse children in this manner, not as cruel as the abuse inflicted upon Islamic children as young as ten or twelve in Guantanamo Bay, but needless nonetheless. One’s own or enemy lines, creatures opportuned display a carnal savagery when given open proxy by an equally barbaric establishment.

Lauding The Great Lord as All Powerful his might and authority as known only to himself, many sing of his alleged greatness and glory with awe and wonder. God is as Universal or as ordinate as the limits of the imaginations of his following. There are lambs, cubs and gentle giants who hold God in reverence. Sceptics however who see the suffering of humanity and needless struggle of man find God a less than morally responsible, noble or humane character. Whether helpless, muted, bound to a pledge or obtuse covenant or outdone by his cohort, whether it be obese or emaciated, is entirely beside the point and purpose.

In this age of Armageddon, whether the good preacher is 280lbs or 90, ''whooping'' them into a frenzy'' unquote or strengthening their morale, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LACyLTsH4ac the envious evil eyes of the hells rodents watch, there are few or no groups assigned for the moral and spiritual welfare of children, how heartening it must be for little ones that your hearts, both, bleed so for them. A matter of conflicts of interests in the reigning body’s than any God’s Lordly will I presume. Armageddon. Your account has been suspended, steve, not entirely a dissimilar to other tormentors, is when closeted in his high security office, a psychopathic vicious pig, as is his botswanian counterpart in keeping with his devious praises. Presumably with his warped sense of humour this account will be resurrected within three days.

This woman has the wrong message. And yes, it is scary. She forgot that God loves children just as they are and who they are. Having them feel guilty and confess their sins while crying is a shame. What could these kids have done that they would have to feel that guilty over? Nothing. The guilt came from the woman running the camp.

So yeah, very scary and not the true message of God.

Haven't seen the film, just followed a contact's star this way, but in response to your comment about God not fixing things, there is a church down the street from me with a large outdoor sign that reads,

"You are not praying hard enough! PUSH until God answers!"

So apparently we just aren't squeaky enough wheels. LMAO.

I was hoping I wasn't the only one deeply disturbed by this movie.

Those people need to have their heads examined.

What kind of parent sends their child to that kind of brain washing. They showed a child who said he accepted Jesus at five, at five they barely understand... share. How can a child understand these things they are pure and to teach them to be warriors is a form of abuse. That talking in tongues is just hysteria. I hope some one informs that woman that she is just nuts. These children will not be out of therapy for the rest of their lives.

I agree with Fear Evolved.