Question re: heel work on Koehler...?

She needs to be right next to you.

Did you do the foundation on the long line the first week. If you did not you can not go on.

You really have to throw the pet smart stuff out the door and start from the beginning of Koehler and go step by step.

What week are you on?

Corrective turns are great for fixing position.

Are you on the Koehler group on Yahoo?

Lots of great experts on there as well as the weekly lesson plans.

Here is the link to the group. Tony Ancheta- tha man who took over for Dick Koehler is on this group.

http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/KMODT/

ADD: If you have not started Koehler with the week one "Foundation" the longe line work you have to stop and go back. I can not stress enough how important it is to follow everything week by week. Koehler is like language or math, one excercise builds on the next.

ADD: MY PURELY TRAINED KOEHLER DOGS SMOKE the other dogs every time, in heeling and the other excercises. Oh yeah and they title in three tries with first place wins. We are the only Koehler people in our classes as well. It is rewarding to kick their butts all the time, tried, true creating reliable dogs. No gimmicks no bribery.

When I work with soft dogs in the agility field, we have a five/three rule. We only work one concept for five times and change to something else. We can come back to the concept after we have worked a few items. For most soft dogs, repeated drills of the same thing can shut them down. If my dog fails three times in a row, I take a step back and praise for success then come back to the item at hand. The most difficult part of soft dogs is not the actual training, but the confidence in what they are working on. One day the dog may seem wonderful, the next something happens and the dog shuts down with out notice. Also a side note, have you given your dog a chance to know the environment before working. I find with my soft dogs that to give them a chance to walk around and know what there will be is important. Even in a sterile environment, the dog does not know what might come out a door that they do not know where it is. You might try walking casually around the room once before starting. At shows, exhibits, etc. I will take a soft dog anywhere that the dogs are allowed to go before any work so they are not as worried. Finally, I would have to ask if you have evaluated the dog to see if it is a candidate for the activities you are looking at trying. I have a Great Dane that would be wonderful for the obedience trials, but when my stress goes up, she shuts down. She makes a wonderful therapy dog. She has all the training needed to compete, but not the ability to perform in the shows. Have you been able to take the dog to any shows and stand around to watch the behavior. This is not something that has to do with soft dog, as some dogs are strong willed and will see every distraction of a show as a horrible thing and want to take care of it. There is a time between one and two years, that the dogs go through something similar to the terrible twos in children. It is why I do not do much true competition style drills until the dog turns two. They are still trying to find their place in the world and figure out how they fit in it. My recommendation is to look into many different training styles and take what works for your dog. If you can customize a training session that works fully with your dog, you will have a wonderful candidate. I love clickers and use often, but am not afraid to work with other methods for a dog.

Some people will feed the dog when dinner is over and they think that's different, but the dog can't tell when it's dinner time and will bug you until you stop dinner and then feed him. So think about the chain of behavior that you're rewarding here. Learn here https://tr.im/q7CMV

Contrary to what you're being told here, feeding your dog "people food" is not what's making him beg. I'm a professional trainer and always feed my dog human quality training treats (cut up chicken, cheese, beef, turkey, etc.) and those of us trainers who do this never have a begging problem. Our dogs know that they get "paid" for correct behavior and never from the table. You could feed your dog dogfood from the table and have a begging problem. It isn't *what* you're feeding, but *when* and *where* you feed him that counts.

If you have a problem with begging, the odds are that you have other problems as well. Consider taking your dog to a basic training class to teach him to obey when you ask him to do something or stop doing something undesirable. Dogs that bark and pester you have learned bad habits-- from you! Going to a training class will help you unlearn those and help you get into better habits.

Too far depends on what it's for. If you're walking down the street a foot or two is no big deal. In a competition I want a dog to be touching me! As far as too far back, I keep my dog's shoulder lined up with my leg because when you make an about face and the dog's head is by your leg he tends to have to "swoop" back, if his ribs further back are in line with your leg then heck he's ahead of you and has no chance of making the turn with you.

A Koehler trained competition heel is never going to win a competition unless everybody else at the trial has Koehler trained dogs as well, lol. Training through drive is the only way to have a dog have an energetic competition smashing heel.

UHave2B...that's fine...but my competition heeling gets me invited to the Nationals. THE BEST trainers in the World aren't hung up on a 50 year old "method" held as gospel. This is the same reason Bruce Lee kicked butt! Lol! Training with food has it's PLACE. It's just sad that some people are too dense to open up to newer methods that are better and learn when to give a bite as a reward, when to treat, and when to correct. The rest of the trainers are like me, they dismissed marker training and all these treats as BS until faced with the fact that I WAS WRONG...Koehler trained dogs DO NOT enjoy training and it shows in their work. I can bust a dog's testes just like you and have them do anything I currently train motivationally or through drive the difference is if you take the time to do it with motivation and drive the dog ENJOYS it and things like speed and accuracy increase.

Anyway this is my last 50 year old Koehler vs Modern Day training argument. The people who've influenced me to more motivational methods like Chico Stanford, has been to the Nationals 8 times, invited 12, with several of those dogs being HOT...credentials speak for themselves...now how many times did Koehler go to the Nats? Heck a Koehler trained dog hasn't won in years although one did place second...great dog, it's a shame he can't reproduce himself in his progeny...Anyway the moral of the story is, if it works for you and you're afraid to try something new that I'm telling ya' works better (because I've trained dogs purely Koehler before too...so for me to be such an advocate of motivational training should speak loudly). Then keep up the good work! I could care less it ain't my mutt! I got my 9 week old pup already doing competition heeling, he sits, downs, stands, and outs and if I had more time he'd be running the blinds!

Hmmm.....just for therapy work I'd say 'out of reach' would be too far for your dog to be.

For competition, thats a whole different story :) I compete in AKC obedience and its very picky, and some judges are very picky too.

A simple way to keep her eyes focused on you (which will keep her body close to you), and keep her from drifting, is to use string cheese and keep it in your mouth. Teach her to catch it from your mouth when she is in the correct position. This really helped my catahoula focus on me and not where her nose was leading her.....she was a terrible drifter and lagger at first. She also was always in her own little world and would bump into me and just never pay attention. String cheese in the mouth changed our world! She now has incredible attention and focus. Her eyes never leave mine and she is so in tune to what I am doing.

Find a great motivating treat (I practice agility with a McDonald's cheeseburger in my pocket for the catahoula...gotta keep that nose in line...haha) and try string cheese in the mouth.

Good luck!

Glad you are doing training! I've used the prong, correctly, with my border collie in the past, worked like a charm :) She doesn't need it anymore.

Sorry, forgot to mention I am familar with Koehler techniques and a lot of it does make sense. I don't "treat my dogs like a vending machine" either. I use a treat as a motivator. Sometimes you need to combine many different types and methods of training until you find what works for you dog.

My catahoula did not respond well to Koehler methods, her nose has to be motivated and she'll do anything :) My border collie on the other hand, does VERY well with any type training...typical.

Wow, people still actually use Koehler? I thought that one went out in the 80's, I find his methods outdated and harsh.

Reading that myself right now...Curious to see the answers to your question :)