I feel I must point out something, and ask of you, my honorable theist witnesses of R&S, a favor & question?

Question

When skeptics such as myself reject your personal testimonials, when we doubt and disbelieve your anecdotes, we do not intend to question your honesty or your honor.

The problem with those instances is twofold.

First, we recognize that testimonial and anecdotes have never been that reliable, it's unfortunate, but it's true.  Anecdotes and testimonials are really just recitations of memories of an individuals impression of an event.  Memories can be mistaken, as can ones impressions, indeed, ones own viewpoint of a particular event may lead to a completely different interpretation than the reality.

Here's a fairly good example: http://beconfused.com/images/2007/03/How-rumours-start-in-the-office.jpg

Secondly, we have no real choice in the matter.  You see, when you propose something miraculous, something which, by all of our knowledge, is impossible, skepticism is the natural default.  We're not about to blindly accept every claim that's put to us, nobody should.  And when you present us with such claims, we have two real options, to either reject them out of hand, which is rude and we aren't inclined to do, or ask for some kind of confirmation, which is actually both appropriate and open-minded.

If you claim that you had cancer that was cured by prayer, then you should be able to produce some very basic things, the paperwork from your medical records where your initial diagnoses was recorded, your follow up exams, your treatment schedule (if you had one), and the documentation that declared you cancer-free.  This should be accompanied by a sworn statement from your Oncologist that whatever treatment you underwent (if you underwent treatment) did not cure your cancer.  Sworn statements from your clergy or fellow believers that they prayed for your recovery would also have to be provided.

We do not intend to insult you, this isn't personal, we just feel that we have a right to certain assurances that what you propose is true, and it's not reasonable to expect us to just take your word or the word of your holy book as true.

Just because you operate from certain assumptions (such as that God exists, that the authors of your holy book were being honest, that the afterlife exists, etc) does not mean that we have to accept them, like any claims, we're going to be skeptical, we're going to require legitimate confirming evidence.

The point of the above clarification, really, is to help you to understand the mindset of my question.

Why do you feel that proposing faith, proposing that we accept certain precepts and assumptions without skepticism, is a reasonable request?

Are we there yet? · Accepted Answer

It's unreasonable to propose anything to anybody without expecting them to have doubts. If their doubts prove to them that whatever had been proposed is not accurate, that's their own personal issue. Not mine. 
I have faith, and the only one that should matter to is me. If you don't have any religious faith, that's your problem.

Anonymous · Answer

"When skeptics such as myself reject your personal testimonials, when we doubt and disbelieve your anecdotes, we do not intend to question your honesty or your honor."
- Most of us do not assume you ARE questioning our integrity...

"First, we recognize that testimonial and anecdotes have never been that reliable, it's unfortunate, but it's true.Anecdotes and testimonials are really just recitations of memories of an individuals impression of an event."
- If you are referring to testimonials and anecdotes regarding religion, then, it is true, that some may be exaggerated or mistaken. Is this not, however, human nature, to question unexplainable concepts such as the "supernatural", even if that does include implementing our own details...

"Here's a fairly good example: http://beconfused.com/images/2007/03/How…"
- How is that... what... *sigh...

"You see, when you propose something miraculous, something which, by all of our knowledge, is impossible, skepticism is the natural default."
- Agreed. As I mentioned earlier, it is human nature to question the unexplainable. The faithful attribute it to the works of their faith. Skeptics, such as thyself, might seek for another explanation.

"If you claim that you had cancer that was cured by prayer, then you should be able to produce some very basic things, the paperwork from your medical records [etc., etc.]"
- Never was such a thing claimed. Praying helps in the spiritual aspect, of asking a benevolent God to assist those in grief and provide a safe delivery for those who, unfortunately, succumb to death.

THE QUESTION:
"Why do you feel that proposing faith, proposing that we accept certain precepts and assumptions without skepticism, is a reasonable request?"
- Such a thing rarely happens, save for communities inhabited by religious zealots and R&S'ers. As I emphasized multiple times, it is human nature to question. Some ascribe it to faith, others do not.

I mean no offense, but, unless you are being harassed by some zealot neighbors or angry internet trolls, your statement lies in the exaggerated.

Anonymous · Answer

Ah, you're so sweet. I'm just old and snarky these days. Shock therapy some times works to break through someones funk. lol

But mostly I can't help but feel sorry for them. That's one reason why I'm snarky, they make me cross  because they are walking around doing the 'hear no evil, see no evil' thing about their own religion, and not actually living. Too busy defending/justifying their denial of reality. Which usually consists of the last part of that trinity with, accuse some other poor sod to distract from thier own evil. 

Practicing Shaman... quantum physics rocks

Anonymous · Answer

The God Yahweh understands your dilemma and wants you to know that it is because of your lack of scientific knowledge that keeps you a skeptic to what Yahweh has achieved through advanced fields of science that He has known for a long time that humans are just now starting to learn. It will be through science and not religion that will lead to proving the existence of a Intelligent Designer named Yahweh.

CharChar · Answer

Your ranting  has placed your name on the prayer list of unbelievers that need salvation.

CatSamuel · Answer

I guess I'm lucky. I don't expect anybody to believe anything I say.

? · Answer

Have it your way, Professor.  Would it then be unreasonable for me to ask that atheists stop asking for evidence they will only reject?

Because, you see, this evidence that you write off as anecodal and impossible is very personal and very real to those of us who believe.  It seems rather barbarian of people to request this information solely to mock it.

? · Answer

Blah, blah, blah...on and on...forever and ever.  Just wait!  You'll find out.

Anonymous · Answer

http://healingandrevival.com/BioSWigglesworth.htm

the story of theist guy...its worth checking it out ;)

Anonymous · Answer

Obviously, no one trusts what you have written here.
Prepare to live forever.

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I feel I must point out something, and ask of you, my honorable theist witnesses of R&S, a favor & question?

11 Answers