MMR & Autism... (20 characters)?

Any vaccine, not just the MMR, can cause vaccine injury and autism. So I think you're on the right track, but be careful to not let the other vaccines off the hook.

You are right, there would be rioting in the streets if the CDC finally came out and said, "Yes, we've known for quite some time now that vaccines are involved with autism, but we didn't feel like warning anyone until now."

"helpnout," I don't have time right now to refute everything you wrote, but here's one thing. You wrote, "all remaining vaccines that contained thimerosal expired in 2003, but yet autism continues to rise."

The CDC's most recent statistics on autism, 1 in 110 kids, are from kids born in 1998, BEFORE mercury was reduced in vaccines. "The average total ASD prevalence in 2006 (children born in 1998) was 9.0 per 1,000 children, which translates to one in 110 children." http://www.cdc.gov/ncbddd/features/counting-autism... Mercury was never removed or reduced in flu vaccines, and in recent years, flu vaccines have been much more heavily pushed on pregnant women and young children.

helpnout, you're also on the wrong track about why autism is more prevalent in boys than girls. It's because boys have more testosterone, which affects how they respond to the toxins in vaccines. Genes and testosterone levels have not changed since the 1980's, when autism was 1 in 10,000 kids. Genetic epidemics are impossible. You know what changed since the 1980's? The number of vaccines on the childhood schedule. Compare the 1983 schedule to the 2010 schedule.

1983 http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/pubs/images/schedule19...

2010 http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/recs/schedules/downloa...

And to Jordan's mama, that's really sad about your nephew. Would his parents be open to trying to at least partially recover him from autism? There are doctors who specialize in healing autism. http://www.autismwebsite.com/practitioners/us_lc.h...

Here's a good book on healing autism. http://www.amazon.com/Healing-New-Childhood-Epidem...

I know I'm answering late, but I wanted to try and put the "MMR vaccine is BAD!" thought into perspective a bit.

You know that the MMR vaccine is three vaccinations in one injection, I'm sure of that. Lots of people know that and it freaks them out. But, think about how many vaccines babies get. At 2 months old, they get (typically) 14 different vaccines. Then they get those same 14 vaccines again at 4 months old, and again at 6 months old. By 6 months old, that's 42 separate vaccinations. At 12 months, when the MMR is typically given (between 12-15 months), babies get 8 of those same 14 vaccines again, plus the three from MMR, and two more (chicken pox and Hep A). That gives them, by the time there's a break in vaccines until Kindergarten boosters, 55 separate vaccinations in just 12-15 months.

If vaccines truly do cause a problem in babies and toddlers, it's not just that the MMR vaccine was bad and caused all of the changes. If it truly is the vaccines (and it could just be a coincidence in timing like K pointed out), it is going to be caused by the sum of the vaccines rather than just the MMR vaccine. It just doesn't make sense that, after 52 separate vaccinations in 12-15 months, the extra three from the MMR vaccine would be the sole factor that makes a difference.

I too, have been researching for while ;) While far from conclusive, there truly are lots of factors that point both directions. My theory is that it's not the vaccines themselves that cause autism, but the accompanying fever most children get after a round of shots, combined with a neurological predisposition to develop the disorder that appears after a certain age. So the vaccine just happens to be given at the same time the potential has developed in children, and the fever makes it happen. If that is the case, it can't be blamed on the vaccines, for a child will certainly develop a fever at one point or another, vaccinated or not. This also explains why non-vaccinated children develop it as well. I keep hearing different numbers now(1 in 110, 1 in 166), and with the growing rise of the non-vax movement, surely a number of them have to be unvaccinated. Unfortunately, we're a society of guilt, and always hope to blame something that we can perceive as our fault(if it truly is genetic, no one wants to think that it's their eggs/swimmers that caused it to develop) on enviromental factors that may or may not be beyond our control. Sometimes it really is the enviromental factors, but oftentimes it's not, and it becomes a philosphy debate. I've heard passionate debates from autism caregivers who do believe it was the vaccines, as well as those who don't believe it had anything to do with it, and swear the signs and symptoms were there long before the vaccines were administered.

As the previous poster said, you can't sue for reactions to vaccines, though you can expect treatment to be paid for. And since the government does fund a LOT of treatments, through medicare, early intervention, school programs, it really wouldn't make a difference to them. Exept they could probably save money in the long run by setting up a standard care schedule/treatment plan and expect all autistic caregivers to adhere to it instead of trying various medications, diets, treatment programs, or a variety of each for similar spectrum disorders. The government is an entity, and while I don't trust it either(We never landed on the moon in the 60's dangit!), it is only an entity and not a person, so a guilty conscience wouldn't prevent it from admitting to wrongdoing that would cost it more were it to continue. So in my opinion, yes, they would admit it ;)

Good luck!

When you have a child diagnosed with autism you want to blame something or someone, it's human nature. Then you settle done, think about it logically, look at photos of that same child as a baby and see his far away gaze, see how content and quiet he was, see him playing with upside down toy cars, see his head was too big for his body and realise that all these photos were taken months before he even had an MMR jab you realise your child didn't "get" autism, he was born with it. Then you grieve, get over it and start to think positively about how you can help your child have as full a life as possible. If you haven't done this you will spend all your time blaming others and looking for a cure instead of being the best you can be for your "special" child. By not having the MMR jab all unvaccinated children are at risk of brain damage or worse. My brother (29) had mumps last year and had a terrifying wait to find out if he was infertile. You have to weigh up the pros and cons and make a personal choice, eg I am not giving my children the swine flu jab as I live in a remote area in North Yorkshire and at the moment we aren't considered a risk, should it come nearer I may think again but at present I'm happy with my decision. I have 4 children, all have had the MMR jab but only 1 has autism. Best wishes with your decision.

My daughter is on a delayed vaccine schedule, because I believe that there MIGHT be a risk of side effects, when you give a child too many shots. She gets 2 shots every month, instead of the recommended number. I completely understand what you are saying, but I think there are some flaws to your conspiracy theory. First of all, you cannot sue for vaccine related issues. If your child has a reaction and you can prove it's from the vaccine, there is a fund that gives money for the treatment, but you cannot actually sue anyone for anything here. So, that one is out. Would the gov't really try to hide it, if they found that MMR causes autism? I don't think so. I don't agree with many things they do, but if they hid that fact, and didn't try to improve the vaccine, they would be shooting themselves in the foot. I don't think any government would knowingly allow their citizens to become a "burden on a society" and to grow up to be unproductive and need constant care (no offense to all the great kids out there, but from a society's point of view, they often are a burden).

As of right now, I think I will let my daughter get MMR. I might change my decision in the future, but that is to be seen. I believe there is some truth to it causing autism, but I also think it's a bit blown out of proportion. Our advanced science and medicine created this whole spectrum of this disease, and that's why suddenly, we see so many diagnosis. A child that some years ago was considered quiet and shy, or took longer to start talking, is now diagnosed with autism. It's a good thing on one hand, because more kids are getting help, but on the other, I think the diagnosis might be a bit overused, because it's either easier for the doctor, or for the parent.

If, and when, my daughter gets the vaccine, I sure hope she's fine, as I can't even imagine living my life knowing that my decision sentenced her to that kind of life.

well.... speaking as a mom with a kid that has special needs, sensory issues, and frequent tantrums not normal for her age.... I believe that some kids may just be predisposed to having issues, or neurological issues such as autism. My daughter has sensory issues that is on the same spectrum as autism, her issues started as an infant, and she did not start her immunizations until she was 18 mos old, her twin had his on time and he is the brightest kid in his preschool. Like I said, I think some kids may just be more susceptible to having a neurological issue develop such as autism... like how do these parents know that their kid would not have been the same in developing autism without the immunizations? there is no way to tell since no one knows of specific links to what causes autism, so you dont know if the mmr caused it or if the kid would have became that way on their own. Everyone has their opinions, thats just my take on it.. my daughter had absolutely no immunizations till 18 mos due to other medical issues and she showed signs of sensory issues by 6 mos old. The main issue with the immunization theory is that most immunizations are given in bulk, they give more than one at once. If anything I would suggest maybe having your baby on a schedule where they only give one immunization at a time, instead of 2 or 3 at a time.

It is great that you are doing all this research but . . . . I truly believe that the number of parents who post online that their child has never been the same after a vaccine is a fraction of a percentage of the parents who vaccinate their children and have NO ISSUES. My children are up-to-date on their vaccines (they even have had seasonal flu shots and H1N1), they have had no issues and I feel no need to go on the internet and post long testimonials that my children are fine . . . it is the small percentage posting who "might" have had issues and many of them feel so passionate that they post their stories repeatedly. It is still tens of hundreds of times greater that nothing bad will happen.

Do your research and weight your options, in my situation, my daughter has a heart defect and is considered immune compromised. Any sort of infection or respiratory issue could be fatal for her . . . therefore we vaccinate. I would rather risk the side effects than to have her die of something that could have been prevented from a vaccine. She is a special situation and since she is a twin . . . we vaccinate him, too as they are constantly together.

All you can do is do your research and hope you make the right choice . . . but to refer to personal stories on the internet is to base your decision on a small minority. It is not a great analogy but think of your favorite restaurant or department store . . . have you wrote a letter or announced to everyone how great it is? Yet, we all have no trouble complaining about bad service. It is tragic, but the people who feel their child has had a serious adverse reaction is in the minority - it is NOT "so many" when you compare it to the parents who have vaccinated their children without issue. Everything has risks . . . you need to educate yourself and weigh the pros and cons - we cannot keep our children in a bubble.

Best wishes.

personally i had both my children fully vaccinated. the reason was that as a learning disabilities nurse i had worked with many people who were damaged by childhood diseases such as measles and rubella. the worst one was rubella syndrome, caused by a mother contracting rubella in early pregnancy. the baby develops severe problems, deaf dumb blind, brain damage. there were rarely some people a cared for who were vaccine damaged.

as i said i have 2 children, fully vaccinated. the eldest has severe autism and the other one doesn't. at 1st observation my autistic son appeared "normal" before his vaccinations, however with hindsight and my previous experience i realised he had always been different, even in the womb. if he had not been autistic these little differences would have just been put down to "character".

autism has a lot of genetic links, and the very sharp increase in incidence of autism is definitely not linked to vaccinations. there are many countries who do not have mmr but still are having the increase in autism.

i believe that the man who said there was a link (sorry cant remember his name) has done a lot of damage, especially for future generations who are going to be vulnerable to the old child hood disease due to the population being less vaccinated as babies. this will laed to an increase of terrible preventable things like rubella syndrome.

many people are very alarmed by the dramatic increase of autism, it has made many parents afraid that they could be next,,after all it is now 1 in 100.

i don't know the answer as to why but i do know that i want my children protected from the horrible childhood illnesses which can cause an aw full lot more damage that autism does.

having a child with autism can be hard work at times but he has a lot to give, and im glad i have protected them both.

to help you in your decision bear in mind that that due to the success-full vaccination program over many years people have forgotten the horrors of these diseases and why we have come so close to eliminating them. we are now seeing an resurgence of them due to all the scare mongering. while you are researching make sure you look at the 3rd world who don't have the luxoury of vaccinations for their babies.

its a hard decision to make and only you can make it but please be assured that these cases you hear about are reported because of the sensationalism,,,, you don't get to hear about the many many many autistic kids who were so autistic they had difficult births because they didn't have the right birth reflexes to get thru the bith cannal, they were hyper even in the womb, they screamed and would not be held from the day they were born,,,,,untill us parent s realise whats wrong, then we learn to understand them, help them understand us and eventualy a weird kind of normality and happiness is achieved.,,,,,anyway,,im just rambling on now,,,,sorry. good luck, im sure your baby will be fine,,,in my heart i know my nautistic son has always been autistic.

My only suggestion/comment to you is to do a little bit more research regarding autism.

Autism was diagnosed before the MMR vaccine came out.

A court case in 1747 describes a person with behavior characteristics of autism.

1938 - Hans Asperger termed asperger.

1970- when the MMR vaccine was first developed and used

Edit - I strongly believe that if we all relived the time frame when these disease were rampant and our family members were becoming ill and dieing right and left then we wouldn't be doubting these vaccines. But since the vaccines have done a great job at wiping these diseases out the fear of them have also dissappeared as well.

The government has designed this particular vaccine to damgage and destroy children who have the genetic and neurological potential to rise up against this ****** up government system. It is a targeted conspiracy and that I am sure of. They are out to get those who speak out against this governmental dominance that we all live under. **** the CIA, **** the government, and **** the pharmaceutical companies who work with them