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Could quantum physics positively invalidate Christianity?
** Disclaimer - If you are an R&Ser turned off by science, go no further! **
The Many Worlds Interpretation (MWI) of Quantum Physics
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Many-worlds_interpret... )
is a hypothesis that describes how every event with multiple outcomes produces several new universes, one for each outcome. If you toss a coin, 2 universes result, one where heads resulted, and one with tails.
One constraint is that no information can pass between universes.
As God is omnipotent, he can make changes in any universe. He is also omniscient, so can know everything in every universe. However, if he makes a change in one, then an active participant (God) in that universe knows what happens in another i.e. the information about one universe now exists in another, thus breaking the MWI constraint.
So, as Christianity insists there is one omniscient omnipotent god, wouldn't verifiction of MWI invalidate any claim of such a god, hence this religion itself?
[The idea for this question came from:
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index;_ylt=Ah7gf... ]
Please explain your answer.
@Embryonic: "Quantum physics does not describe multiple universes"
It does, one of several waveform interpretations (cf Copenhagen wf collapse http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copenhagen_interpreta... ).
@Charis: I'm assuming the single god, so cannot be divided. If this god becomes an actor/agent to make a change in one universe, then he is part of that universe. As he is also containing information of the other universes, this is a conflict.
This can be got round by being divisible; a local god can be the actor locally, under command of a "chief" god globally (yeah, terminology) which imparts no non-local information. However, that also conflicts with the claims of Christianity of a single god. Indeed the MWI depends on uncertainty, i.e. dice. In that, Planck seems right, Einstein wrong. So far...
@gRAVEoN: I petty much exactly agree with you, and this question was slightly more provocatively rhetorical than analytical. I use the term "proof" as "scientific invalidation" isn't well understood in R&S.
Indeed it's not science's job to invalidate a religion, but it is used to invalidate claims; if those claims are made by a religion, so be it. Think of Galileo, the Vatican, and geocentrism.
However, the result would likely be a "re-evaluation" of the religion, i.e. it would just morph to cope as happened after that one.
It's just another attempt to get people to think critically.
23 Answers
- gRAVEoNELv 51 decade agoFavorite Answer
The short answer, of course, is no: since no scientific or logical discovery can invalidate any religion. A believer will always find some gap to stick their God into, or, when worst comes to worst, claim that their God is beyond such considerations as logical self-consistency and what-not. Theists are quite good at contorting their narrative to explain the unexplainable and justify the unjustifiable. The *real* answer is, of course, that science is not in the business of proof or disproof. It has, however, made the standard conception of the Abrahamic deity overwhelmingly unlikely. Not that believers care...:)
EDIT: @Charis: QM has nothing to do with free will.
@Embryonic: Look up the Everett interpretation of QM, recently promoted by Deutsch et al.
@Objective christian: No, physicists have said nothing of the kind. What we do know is that nothing with mass can be *accelerated* all the way to the speed of light. That's why it's called a barrier. If you do not understand the difference, your opinions are not worth the electricity carrying them across the internet.
@ssjagta19: No, religions are NOT theories. At best, they are failed hypotheses. Your attempt to put them on the same footing with scientific theories is silly, irrelevant and wrong-headed on all counts.
- 1 decade ago
I feel that your reaching here. The fact that the Earth is not 6000 years old, the universe was not created in 6 days, and every creature on Earth, including humans, have evolved over billions of years invalidate any claim of any God that has ever been created. (that is unless you want to include Einstein's "god")
On a side note, I have read about MWI for a while now and do find it pretty interesting. It really opened a whole new realm in theoretical physics about being able to "travel" into that other universe where the coin landed differently. Has also made for some interesting novels.
- Anonymous1 decade ago
We really don't need to get that exotic. The Old Testament itself refutes the notion that Yeshua was the Messiah. Christians are only familiar with the gospel writers and Justin Martyrs' fraudulent and unsupported isogesis of Old Testament texts attempting to make them into prophecies that fit Jesus, and making up fictions to make Jesus fit the prophecies. But it's simple to refute.
Both gospel geneologies in Luke and Matthew show Jesus being descended from David through Joseph. And yet the Christian claim is that Jesus was conceived in a virgin birth caused bu the Holy Spirit. Thus Joseph is not Jesus' biological father, and thus Jesus is not "seed of David" and thus Jesus is not and cannot be the Messiah. Catholics for year have made the claim that Jesus is descended from David through Mary, yet neither of these geneologies (which do not match by the way and aer not complete in either case) ends with Mary, both ending with Joseph so this is just BS. So if Jesus is in fact the biological son of Joseph, and therefor seed of David, then the virgin birth claim is falsified and Jesus is not a demigod, let alone God. If Jesus is in fact the result of supernatural conception and Joseph is not the biological father, then Jesus is not "seed of David" and not the Messiah whatever he may be. And if, as rabbinical sources assert and the gospel itself hints, Jesus is the bastard son of a gentile, specifically a Roman archer named Panteras, then his birth is neither supernatural nor is he the Messiah.
In fact, as Jews have always known, Jesus fufilled none of the requirements to be regarded Messiah, despite fictions to the contrary (with Christians making Messianic prophecy from verses that are no such thing and ignoring the ones that are, or claiming Jesus will fulfill those when he "returns" which they still await after two thousand years for no good reason).
No physics required.
- Martin TLv 71 decade ago
As far as I know, the idea that God is omniscient and omnipotent comes from the Greek philosophers and was adopted by Christianity somewhere around the 2nd or 3rd centuries. I think it would be easy for Christianity to shed this baggage - though dogmatists would complain bitterly. (see some of the answers to this question!)
Physicist Julian Barbour, who supports the 'many instants' interpretation of quantum mechanics - which is similar to the many worlds interpretation - has said that a creator God would be hard to fit into the world as he sees it; he says he is inclined to pantheism.
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- ?Lv 41 decade ago
By your own definition, God is outside the universe(s).
Then you say that God as an active participant in one universe and contained by it. You have decided that the God of your story can exist outside of all the universes or inside one, not both.
Logically, if God is outside of the universes but can participate in one, he is actually participating in multiple universes at the same time. An omniscient, omnipotent god could do this, of course, because he is the creator of the universe(s).
The problem people have had with quantum physics is that with the creation of mankind, God plays dice - meaning that in the ordered universe, God created people with free will. So not only do you have multiple universes, in your scenario, you also have creatures doing what they like in them and not subject to logic. It you can figure out the mathematics of that, you would begin to know God's thoughts.
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- 1 decade ago
First of all, if the purpose of invalidating Christianity is to prove that their religion is wrong, then no, it's impossible. Christians would typically hold their beliefs even if you had means to go back in time physically point out flaws in their beliefs.
Second, quantum physics is just a theory (like any religion), so as of now it has no footing above Christianity. Coupled with the fact that you could never prove that quantum physics is fact according to your statement that "One constraint is that no information can pass between universes", and you have a bad case.
HOWEVER, assuming you could prove quantum physics to be law, yes, you could invalidate Christianity in a debate club or a court of law (but not in the minds of the christians).
- Anonymous1 decade ago
Quantum physics explains that electron are intertwined. If two intertwined electrons are separated and each placed at the opposite side of the universe, a force placed on one will immediately be felt by the other. This happens instantly and is therefore far faster than light. Quantum physics does not describe multiple universes. If evolution hasn't squished God yet, quantum physics won't either (sadly). That's my opinion.
Source(s): evolutionary biologist - Sky ChumblyLv 51 decade ago
If God is not contained within a single universe, then the constraint wouldn't be violated. Only if God is characterized as "information" would MWI negate Christianity.
- OthnielLv 61 decade ago
Quantum physics has already brought up more questions than physicists have answers. How than can you even assume that this branch of science has given definitive answers to the questions of life?
You can't be serious in this question or you have thought very superficially in spirituality, life and existence. Mankind knows so little and even with the explosion of knowledge we are still incapable of understanding our own world or even defining how many dimensions exist.
I suggest you google Rob Bell and his presentation on "Everything Is Spiritual."
Keep thinking and keep seeking.
Source(s): Christian - Anonymous1 decade ago
Bible says no man can know the mind of God, we cannot conceive of it. God is spirit. So in trying to understand God, I think of Him as kinda like the world wide web on steroids with powers to heal and move mountains.
Any Earthy speculation is really a waste of time