Christians and/or Atheists: Please answer this question!?

Question

Whenever someone tells me that God has a hand in the everyday lives of people, or that he answers prayers, or that he's so loving etc etc, I pose this question: Where was your god during the Crusades, or the spanish inquisiton? Where was he in the Dark Ages, when people were being put to death by the thousands because they were "witches"? Where was he at wounded knee, when the systematic destruction of the Native americans began? Where was he during the slave trade; 400 yearsof people being dragged from there homes and taken to a far away land to be sold like cattle? Where was he during the holocaust? Where was he when we dropped the first nuclear weapons on Hiroshima and Nagasaki, killing hundreds of thousands instantly, and destroying generations to come through loitering radiation? Where was he during the Rwandan genocide? And where is he now, when Darfur is experiencing something as terrible as any of the aforementioned events? Tell me how many people.... SCREAMING, crying, and praying to your god that they may live another day; that they may not have to see their mother be beaten to death; that they may not suffer the sight of everyone they know lined up on a wall and shot; that they may not have to work their fingers to the bone digging their own grave, all day and night just to be shot the next morning simply because they were Hutu, or Jewish, or Muslim, or Native American, etc. Tell me how your God could POSSIBLY be intervening in the lives of ANYONE, let alone yourselves, yet let these atrocities happen. And do NOT give me "Well the devil did it". God vanquished the Devil and banished him to Hell once already, dont tell me he couldnt do it again in a heartbeat. Also don't give me the answer that people can be evil because of free will. If God loves all his creations as much as the bible stresses, he would never let suffering on this scale befall any man. Especially someone who reveres the Bible. And if your answer is that it was "a test to see if people would still believe in him" then i AGAIN cry bullshit, because that would just prove that God of the bible didn't know what he was doing, as i've read many, many accounts of holocaust survivors who claim that, after living through something like that, there simply is "no god."

Update:

Also, if I hear "we dont know what Gods plan is, so we cant be sure why he did this" then I may just explode due to the vast amount of stupidity uttered here... that statement or anything like it would imply that you are either completely devoid of free thought, or you willingly serve a higher being who has killed billions, if not trillions of people. Bravo.

Update 2:

Honestly, I'm just trying to jog some meaningful dialogue out of people. I myself was raised Catholic, but pretty much subscribe to being agnostic. I begrudge no one their own personal beliefs, I simply wish to find answers to questions that plague me.

Update 3:

So, according to some people here, just because Rwandan natives and Japanese didnt believe in the christian god, its OK that they suffered and died? Pretty much EXACTLY what I expected from some of the religious answers on this thing. My mistake: Satan is in heaven bound with chains. whatever. all that does is funnel into my argument, because lucifer is mother effing BOUND instead of running free with evil intent. all the more reason to ask god "wtf man?"

Rebecca Laurie · Accepted Answer

Easy, Mate. There is no proof that a god exists.

You're right that if he did exist, he would have to be malevolent and cruel. There is no moral justification for allowing babies to starve to death and toddlers to be raped if you have the power to stop it. I don't care what your "big plan" is.  If you CAN stop it and you don't, you're a cruel pr!ck. 

If you can't stop it, then you're not all-powerful, which means we are on our own anyway, right?

How could the things we see in the world be justified?

Imagine a mother in a third world country who gives birth to a baby and watches it starve to death slowly, painfully, horribly over a period of months or years while SHE PRAYS AND BEGS AND BESEACHES GOD EVERY DAY to send food and help for her child.  And then the child dies, having never known anything but pain and suffering. And this happens THOUSANDS OF TIMES EVERY WEEK ALL OVER THE WORLD.

Imagine a  four year old being raped by her step-dad every night, scared and in pain,  praying to her Jesus in heaven for help, and it never comes.

There is no moral justification for these things. Saying she'll have a happy life when she gets to heaven (of which there is no proof whatsoever) doesn't cut it.

But, like I said, there is no proof that a god exists, and it HAS been proven that prayer is completely ineffective and yields the same exact 50/50 odds as NOT praying. Here are some statistics:

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/40765.php

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12082681/

http://articles.sfgate.com/2006-03-31/news/17288045_1_prayers-praying-american-heart-journal

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/03/31/health/31pray.html?ex=1301461200&en=4acf338be4900000&ei=5088&partner=rssnyt&emc=rs

So of course it doesn't help.. It's like wishing on a star or wishing on a turkey bone when you break it. It's a nice idea, but it's just a fairy tale.

Michael Darnell · Answer

Hi Joe. I understand what you are saying. One of my grandmothers was a holocaust survivor and she lost her faith there. In my family we are mostly believers representing most of the major faiths of the world and I am one of the few atheists and I have been all my life. That having been said; I think for some the very idea that there is no God is incomprehensible. I feel that if a belief in a God helps people to find meaning or fulfillment or joy or peace in their lives then that is a good thing. It need not be objectively true from my point of view, it is true to them and it helps them deal with things, so I am genuinely happy for them. I simply do not share their belief - but I love and care for them regardless.

SayDoYouWantToGoSeeAMovie · Answer

TL;DR.

Yhvh is blatant fiction. "Oh here's some guy who lives in the sky and knows everything and is everywhere and is all powerful and loves everyone and he's just awesome by golly but who gives a sh!t about the 20,000 brown kids he lets die of starvation every day or the fact that he likes to torture for eternity those who don't telepathically blow him..."

I mean, seriously? People actually believe any of this? Next thing you're going to tell me there are people who actually believe this planet and the universe in which it resides sprang from oblivion 6014 years ago at the whim of a sky-fairy who thinks we really ought to cut our babies' genitals and kill non-virgin brides and disobedient kids... Nobody could be that stupid and still coherent, they'd have to be like those kids on the short bus with the helmets and the wheelchairs. Wait, no, that was rude, the short-bus-helmet-wheelchair-kids are probably much smarter than that... right? Right??

Anonymous · Answer

there is too much wrong with this to correct it all but here are a few of the big falsehoods you recite:
God vanquished the Devil and banished him to Hell once already. bull. satan is right in heaven. held in chains by Michael directly behind Christ. read the bible a little and learn. he is there but his spirit wis loose on earth.
 we dropped the first nuclear weapons on Hiroshima and Nagasaki. yes and we all know japs during ww2 prayed to the true God YHVH. yeah right. again read a little and learn.
spanish inquisiton. a bunch of self righteous heretics that thought they were holier than thou. nothing to do with God.
 Rwandan genocide. the people committing this atrocity belive in YHVH....not. and the people it is being perpetrated against do also....not.
jews of the time of the holocust always prayed to God in the name of Christ. yeah right. jews do not believe Christ was the Son of God.
just way too much wrong so i will generalize it into one statement.
get educated. learn at least a little about a subject before you rant on it. it really wouldn't hurt to crack the bible open too. that part about satan...you are one mislead reed shaking in the wind.

Eclectic Heretic · Answer

Interesting to see that, out of the 4 answers I've seen so far, none of them actually addressed your question.  And you did not get any answers from the religious at all.  I guess they can't handle reality.  But remember, "god" is deeply and intensely interested in your sex life.  Ever notice that?
Blessings on your Journey!

Anonymous · Answer

I saw a guy run across the surface of a pool filled with a non-Newtonian fluid therefore God is real, and also the soul is an invisible organ in the human body which is teleported to one of two parallel universes, either heaven or hell when we die.

? · Answer

Have a look at the first source transmissions, which there are only 3 on the download page at www.wingmakers.com you will find an interesting twist to your question and it may help you look at this religious crap from a different angle. email me if you find it interesting.

NaturalBornKieler · Answer

As an atheist, the answer for me is obvious. I don't need to speculate about the character or the motives of a god.

Anonymous · Answer

from Adam's time till Jesus return-mankind are on their own will to do what He/she choose for himself/herself and/or for his people as a whole.
we are in the gap were we dictate our own paths, this is to make us realize that we need God's directions and not man,but mankind are too stubborn to lay their will before God.
you see what happen in the beginning? yep, it's still happening today,right?
do you think that majority of people would just give up their will to let God dictate their will? and rule the world for them? do not think so my friend. the people drive the trouble on their own head.but many people died in the name of God, and they were here for that purpose.just like when Jesus died and hang on the cross without fault for that very purpose-to save you and the rest of the humankind. if you are willing to carry your own cross and follow him(JESUS).and again i'd say you'd refuse and doing that is choosing your destiny-even when God showed you the path to everlasting life.so, yes, that's exactly what i mean-when people are too stubborn to let God direct their life.
and majority of people around the globe died unnecessary for lack of knowledge/wisdom from God and lack of faith or no faith at all...wasted.

Stephanie · Answer

I'm not very wise,and I don't have the answers, but I'll give you how I understand the subject at this point in time. 

This is our choice, not God's. 

God has basically told us: 
"Here's how you are supposed to behave, how to be successful in your life, how to be just and righteous. Now it's up to you to choose what you want to do." 

God doesn't want us to do wrong, but he will let us do it, because of free will. 
I don't think war is cause by one individual doing evil only, but by many, over years. 
It could start with something as little as using dishonest scales when selling goods. One individual gets angry with the other, they start fighting. Instead of making peace or forgiving or admitting to dishonest scales, they each start talking to their friends about how wicked the other is. Now many people are involved, and perhaps these are important people who have influence over others, so suddenly we have nation against nation fighting against each other. 

Now perhaps this is overly simplified, but I think it shows how important our own little actions are. God gives us baby steps to follow, we may not see the impact in a few hundred years, but they are wise steps to follow. 

Also, you can find the answer to this question in the old testament, in deuteronomy for instance.

Deut 29:24-28
All the nations will ask: "Why has the LORD done this to this land? Why this fierce, burning anger?"

And the answer will be: "It is because this people abandoned the covenant of the LORD, the God of their fathers, the covenant he made with them when he brought them out of Egypt. 
They went off and worshiped other gods and bowed down to them, gods they did not know, gods he had not given them. Therefore the LORD's anger burned against this land, so that he brought on it all the curses written in this book. In furious anger and in great wrath the LORD uprooted them from their land and thrust them into another land, as it is now."

Deut 31:20-21
When I have brought them into the land flowing with milk and honey, the land I promised on oath to their forefathers, and when they eat their fill and thrive, they will turn to other gods and worship them, rejecting me and breaking my covenant. And when many disasters and difficulties come upon them, this song will testify against them, because it will not be forgotten by their descendants. I know the intentions of these people, even now before I bring them into the land I promised them on oath."

Deut 31:28
In the days to come, disaster will come down on you, for you will do what is evil in the Lord's sight, making him very angry with your actions.

Deut.32:37,38
Then he will ask, Where are their gods, the rocks they fled to for refuge?(...)
Let those gods arise and help you!


I think God doesn't intervene because we have chosen not to listen to him, not to believe in him, instead to spite him, and that for years. God has said that if people abandon him, he will abandon them as well. At some point he will leave you to your own ideas and let you walk as you wish. I think at these times God let's us see how dumb our own ideas are... We wanted to follow our own ideas, here are the consequences. I don't think we have the right to judge god, because we don't know everything. We aren't wise enough. What we can do is make sure we do our best to impact our own field of influence.

That's a pretty hard question to answer, though. btw I don't like to see people suffering, and I don't like suffering myself. I'm not sure I enjoy my answer very much either, but it's how I see it for now.

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Christians and/or Atheists: Please answer this question!?

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