Where do "moderate" and "radical" feminists disagree?

They disagree in one area only, it seems:

The 'radicals' are open & public about their hatred for men and make no effort to hide or deny their derogatory contemptuous disregard for men & their lives... The 'moderates' try to deny it - but when you dig deeper into their 'moderate views' you come to realise, they're at one or another degree defending the radicals of their movement... so, while they're may 'publicly' disagree (rather, conflict than disagree) - they actually try to sustain the radical movement by defending it.

This is why it seems some feminists are anti-men. Because just as women can be, some men are extremely ignorant. I don't find women superior to men because they're not. That's why I'm a moderate feminist. Yes, some radicals believe that women hold a higher superiority to men just as some men think they're superior to women. They're not. We're all people. Without men, women wouldn't exist just as without women, men wouldn't either. No one is "higher" than anyone. People who make statements like that though, make themselves sound less educated and in a capitalist society knowledge is power and some people (both gender) lack this making them inferior by definition. Male or female. So yes, you have proven yourself inferior not because of you gender but because of your ignorance. That's the difference between a radical and a moderate. Moderated believe that you're not inferior by nature or gender but by lack of competence. Everyone deserves equal opportunity.

They merely disagree on presentation, not on substance or goals.

When confronted with examples of blatant sexism of their intellectual leaders, "moderate" feminists will initially deny the facts altogether and/or attack the messenger.

Failing that, they attempt to contextualize, minimize, rationalize and justify the unjustifiable.

As a final fall-back, they resort to saying that the feminist who made the sexist remark was an extremist or a radical. Problem is, most of their intellectual leaders are on record with comments that clearly demonstrate their dislike of men and they have never been publicly disavowed by so-called moderate feminists for any of it.

So I just don't believe feminists who claim to be moderate. It's all a front.

I will never be able to believe that moderate feminists are truly for equality. If they are, how the hell did these "radical" feminists even get in power in the first place? How could they let their group be so easily taken over?

But most of all, why don't these people just call themselves HUMANISTS, or EQUALISTS instead? Why do they feel they HAVE to call themselves feminists to believe in equality? The fact they so fanatically defend feminism despite so much proof that it is not for equality shows that they may not mean anything they say and I will never accept as people who are fighting for equality.

I usually don't come on this board. To be honest I don't call my self a feminist. I believe in Liberty for for both men and women.I suppose modern feminist probably would hate the drivel hate spewed of the pass or top feminist. As do women that are not crazy about feminism. Alot of women probably do not think about feminism. In reality feminism was created so top men could tax the other side of the population. Any how I am not worried my that my human rights, my right to be educated, or my right to vote being take away unless I live in a muslim country.

I'm a feminist brother and I really don't think you need to ask the question. You said yourself "the sexist and anti-male actions of feminists".

Bea you don't help the cause any by just saying something so inconsiderate and general as "Men are the problem". I would say people with views like that are the problem to feminism.

The problem here is that there is no centralized feminist doctrine. (There is no "feminist-pope" setting the laws from on-high, so to speak.) I, personally, believe that everyone is better off when people are treated equally. If I see anyone saying that women should be treated as if they are superior, I will tell them that I disagree just as quickly as if I hear someone say that men should be treated as if they are superior. Both of those opinions are against what I believe. I am not a gender studies major or anything like that, though. I think there are some major movements and leaders who use the term "feminist" to mean different things. I'd look up the wikipedia articles and read them if you're looking for definitions.

Just looking at it now. That's a lot of information! If I were you, I'd just play it safe and not assume that any other individual believes any specific thing before asking him/her. (That's a pretty good course of action with people in general too.)

Edit: I don't think there's any legitimate feminist philosophy that would say that "men are the problem." Not even radical feminism. If someone says that, the person is likely just looking for an excuse to take out some personal hatred and hide behind the name of a philosophy, just to make themselves sound less bitter.

If you've been *studying* feminism for eight years and haven't figured out by now that there are different branches of feminism (and that not all feminists think exactly the same on all topics anyway), I very much doubt anything anyone says here, particularly (gasp!) a FEMINIST is going to change your mind.

And btw plenty of *the rest of you* are quite aware of the above.

Case in point - Asquared has given a perfectly valid answer and received several thumbs down. You can lead an anti-feminist to water ...

"So I just don't believe feminists who claim to be moderate. It's all a front."

Classic case of black and white thinking.

Moderate feminists typically are more mainstream, and associated with "sexy fun" feminism, and big advertising campaigns like Dove's Real Beauty and such. They typically protest extremely obvious manifestations of sexism, and tend to stay out of theory work.

Radical feminists analyze the deep structures of society and seek to eliminate sexism from the ground up. They're in favor of radical change, unlike small incremental changes favored by moderates. They typically also object to the making and consumption of porn and buying the services of sex workers.

Moderates are the political face of feminism, and radicals are more the academic foundations of feminism.

For the record, I'm a cultural feminist, which is the 3rd wave off-shoot of radical feminism that seeks to be more inclusive and study the sexism facing more than just middle class white women in Europe and America, such as the sexism facing women in non-Western societies, and the intersection of things like racism and sexism.

All of this is really easy to look up, you know. Wikipedia is your friend. If this is your "pet project" for such a long time, you really ought to be past such basics.

As a moderate feminist I have to say that I don't hate men... not at all. I simply believe - because it's a fact as my women's studies tutor said so - that 95% of the world's problems are the fault of a man, somewhere and somehow; from the mancession to the dead ant on the doorstep - it's nearly guaranteed a man is responsible. That doesn't mean I hate them... I simply LOVE being able to blame all MY problems on the opposite sex, it allows me absolute zero responsibility with full entitlement (including to their money).

Yes, as a moderate feminist I just like to talk about only women's side of things, so to explicitly imply that men simply don't have any 'worthwhile' problems. If a man talks about prostate cancer, I am quick to remind him that women's lives are more import and thus more deserving of attention, money and campaign-energy. I mean, really now... who cares if more men are dying from a walnut up their butt? We women have sexy boobs (well, ok mine aren't due to the dragging on the floor issue)... so for that reason alone, we women deserve more help - actually, we deserve almost ALL the help.

My moderate feminist values allow me to see a world of equality - for women only, of course. Yes, I love men... I have a Son you know. My daughter and I have given him the nickname "rapist". Typical of a man, he just can't take a joke and says it's offensive - bah - he needs to man up and get a sense of humor.

The terms you're looking for are "liberal" and "radical" feminists.

The difference is opinion on strategy, and what's needed for society to overcome sexism.

I'm a radical feminist, and laugh at the idea that I'm anti-male. That would not be feminist.