Should we be critical and be disrespectful of Henry Armstrong who won a 147 title at a 140 catchweight?

Jon, as you know, I've supported the Pac-Cotto catchweight bout. I agree that a lot of interesting bouts can be made through catchweights as you've highlighted in your question. My problem is if Pac fights Margarito for the Junior Middlweight Title at a catchweight, because both are comfortable in the Welterweight division and they could easily fight at 147 for Pac's title. Instead they decide to fight for a vacant middleweight title at a weight class Pac has never been at (I still consider him a natural Jr. Welter) and Margarito's fought at only twice (I think...he could easily make welter). The 8th title in 8 weight classes is meaningless to me as Pac already has the record with 7, and going up to jr. middleweight, when he's not a "true jr. middleweight" and Margarito's not a true Jr. middle is pointless. I could justify a Pac vs. Sergio Martinez fight at a catchweight, but when two welters (one natural jr. welter) fight for a vacant jr. middle title at a catchweight, then I think it's pointless and they should just fight at welter.

The problem I have with the Margarito-Pacquiao fight and also the Cotto-Pacquiao fight is that they have no say about the weight. You think that Margarito or Cotto could have said they don't want to fight at a catchweight? No, because they are Top Rank fighters but Top Rank could give a s**t about them when they are fighting their poster child Manny. If you want a fight with Manny you have to give up every right you have because he is the big draw and you are just an opponent. Whatever Manny says he get's and if you don't want to do one little thing you don't get to fight him because you are a nobody with no rights, even if you are part of the same promotion. Manny can have the biggest chunk of the money, but him getting to decide everything else is just Top Rank kissing his asss and it is very annoying and unfair to the other fighters in my opinion.

@Jon, no I do not think we should insult them because they were doing what they had to in order to make those fights happen. When considering the situation with Pacquiao the catchweight is not necessary, it is only there to satisfy Manny and his camp by giving them an advantage that is not needed. The weight is not necessary, whereas the fights you mentioned were at catchweights because that is the only conceivable way the fighters were able to meet. Manny is choosing to move up in weight to win another title. Not because people are demanding a fight between him and Margarito, so they choice a specified catchweight because it was the only way it could happen and also satisfy both parties involved like back in the day. Nobody cares if Margarito is inconvenienced because his opinion doesn't matter when he is fighting Pacquiao.

If the opponent doesn't want to fight at a catchweight, who's making him? It's alittle more acceptin for someone like Armstrong because the junior welterweight division was not being recognized by many of the state Athletic commissions during that time, although Ross had previously won the junior welterweight title. Ross came into his fight with Armstrong at 142, so maybe 142 was the actual catchweight. Armstrong was only 133 1/2 for that fight. I don't think anyone really needs to be disrespected over a catchweight. Ross was the title holder, and I'm sure he wanted to beat the younger lightweight champion. Ross was a 3 weight class champion, so I think he felt like he knew what he was capable of. That loss to Armstrong was only his 4th loss in 81 pro fights, and it was his last fight. I doubt the weight was an issue, but probably so many fights before age 30.

I am in my 60's I have not paid attention to a lot of new boxers today but I can tell you Pacquaio and Mayweather are true genuine athletes who have Hall of Fame credentials. That being said, both fighters fought at recent catch-weights but it won't hurt their legacies whatsoever because there has been many great fighters who fought at catch-weights before.

Henry Armstrong has fought at catch-weights, only because he was always overwhelmed by size disparity. He fought the naturally bigger boxers so most people felt it was fair. He does not deserve any disrespect for that but in fact he should be commended.

ok this is to me..

no we should not discredit catchweight fights within the history of boxing..

however it IS an issue when there is this 24 hour media cycle trying to create its own history

this catchweight wasnt a big deal until fighters clearly are using that everytime.. and granted he hasnt fought everyone at a catchweight it does appear that pacroid has chosen certain fighters to drain themselves and not others..

ok manny is small so fight other small fighters.

dont make big guys come down to fight you!! you know the advantages you have making someone drain themselves and you dont have to

and at this point it seems to be his tactic, to gain the advantage..

and it wouldnt be that big of a deal if they werent pushing this as manny capturing the his 8th title in 8 divisions like this is legit..

this is not history being made, this is a script playing out before us all...

you know its all good.. but thats where im at as far as that..

thug out

I don't see it as disrespectful. What is more weird is a bigger guy asking for a catchweight and willing to go down in weight so he can fight a smaller guy. To try to even the advantage that the bigger fighter had is nothing but normal. That is the reason why there is weight classes in boxing, to avoid a bigger fighter fighting a smaller fighter and vise versa for money. These were happening before in Asia where Filipinos goes to another Asian country fighting a bigger boxer to earn money. A Bantamweight fighting a full fledged Featherweight or a Feather pitted against Lightweight. There was no catchweight and they were there as a record booster.

Instead of disrespecting them, are we not supposed to appreciate their guts for fighting a bigger guy? After the weigh-in and rehydrating, they normally go back to their normal weight and eliminates the disadvantage that they gave up.

i was about to answer the Q when i saw the "pac issues" galore...

what can i say, im attracted to it:

i guess pac can never please everybody....i myself is against his fight w/ margy

but what can we do? pac said he "only fights" and nobody can take arum out of pacquiao's picture...but i think this fight will do well even w/o us...cuz the casual fans will always buy to see pac fight

regarding the Q:

no, only an ignorant can do that....cuz catchweights was a normal thing then and now...why would that change just because some fight fans are not pleased w/ a midget filipino on their top?

I was just about to create the same kind of question

you have to understand that fanboyism sometimes take the best out of a fan. if you love a boxer too much, you'd sometimes end up hating everyone else and call everything that they do, a bunch of "bs".

they hate pacquiao for going up the weight and asking his opponent to lose 2-4lbs of weight. while floyd stays put on his weight and ask his smaller opponent to bloat up 17lbs. and that for them is fair.

catchweight isn't anything new. those who keeps on complaining about it often times are people who doesn't know much about boxing's history. they're hating pacquiao for something that has been done numerous times in the past. and if they're aware of it, they just pretend it didn't happen. the same thing with hating pacquiao for fighting a cheater like marga. when floyd did the same with mosley.

there was even an idiot here who once said pacquiao invented catchweight in boxing.

and what if they fight at 147lbs for pac's title? they will just say pacquiao did the same thing by asking marga to lose weight which is worse than asking him to only go down to 150lbs.

but you are leaving out the biggest thing which is who demanded the catchweight. for example, you are making it seem floyd made the catchweight even tho it was marquez

good discussion and replies to the answer with non bias opinion..