Fellow Christians, what do we do with Romans chapter 9?

Great question. What do we mean by "free" I believe God is free, Jesus was free while he lived, Adam and Eve were free for a time in the garden. But, ah yes, they rebelled. Why? I don't know. Nobody does. It is a mystery. People say they used their free will to sin. Hello, their free will was unencumbered by sinful proclivities that you and I have. They did not have a sin nature as yet. Which is why Jesus came as the second Adam (Romans 5 and I Corinthians 15) to restore what Adam lost. "As in Adam all sin, so in Christ all shall be made alive." We are not naturally alive, we are dead in trespasses and sin (Ephesians 2:1-3). We need the Holy Spirit to give us new birth (John 3:3,7, 6:63-65). God cannot compromise HIs soveriegnty, holiness, righteousness, justice so if salvation is to be accomplished at all, it must be accomplished by someone who is perfect and fully obeys the law in every detail. We must never forget that all would be doomed to hell "justly" if it were not for God's saving grace. No one deserves forgiveness of sins or eternal life. No one can earn it, achieve it, bargain for it, work for it, or be religious enough. We are all sinners, guilty, vile, and helpless who owe to God an insurmountable debt. But God gave it all in not sparing His Son to secure the salvation of all who trust in His Son for salvation. Amazing grace how sweet the sound that saved a wretch like me!

So far, Few of the answers that have been given Agree with each other…,

So Yes!... I’d say there is difficulty in understanding God’s Sovereignty & Mans free will.

But Romans 9-11 is a section that must be taken together, and If you read the Conclusion of that section (Ch 11:33-36) You WILL Find the Short answer to your question.

a More Detailed Explanation of How predestination and election are connected with God's foreknowledge, can be found here:

http://www.gotquestions.org/predestination-forekno...

I do not believe that this scripture means that God chooses whom He wants to be saved. In reading and studying the bible you should realize that everything written is not to be take literally. The bible is written with use of symbolism and imagery. You have to understand those thing to have a good understanding of the written text.

Yes, we know God is sovereign. Hopefully we can all agree on that. I know the atheist, pagans don't accept that, but this question isn't being written to them. The use of vessel of honor and vessel of dishonor is the symbolism or imagery. It is there to teach us a valuable lesson. During the time of this writing there many that had an occupation as a potter. They made item or vessel of clay as a way to support the family. By using this type of symbolism the readers(audience) of the text could identify with and understand the writer. A potter would place a lump of clay upon the potter's wheel. At this point it has no shape. The would begin to cause the wheel to turn and begin to mold or shape the clay into a vessel. Now in the mind of the potter he has a purpose for this vessel. Its purpose could be a vase, a plate, or a bowl. The clay begins to take shape. If it takes the shape of the potter's idea it is a vessel of honor. But if it doesn't take the desired shape it become a vessel of dishonor. The good thing about this vessel of dishonor is that it is not finished or complete. It can be reshaped or remolded until it becomes the image of what is in the imagination of the author or potter.

God is sovereign. He is the potter. We are the clay. He allows us to choose. If we choose correctly he can reshape us and mold us into a vessel of honor. We will be molded in the very image of God's imagination.

It is of God's perfect will that all of mankind would be saved. But God is omniscience and knows that some will not repent, therefore it become His permissive will to allow man to have his own will and not be saved.

The CONTEXT is Romans 8 where we reqad how all the people being written to had received God'sm Spirit, with speaking in tongues (vv15-16, 26) . . this had been preached to teh Jews since Pentecost (Acts 2). The amazing salvation spoken of since the Old Testament is now come and God's living witnesses are showing people.

But some people are relying on feelings or money or religion instead, these people will not "hear" the truth.

Just get it & live it, let God do the judging.

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Good point.

But Re; the twins -- He Loved them both, that was to do with the races/tribes they would become.

God Loves ALL mankind and wants all to be saved.

2 Peter 3:9 NLT

The Lord isn't really being slow about his promise to return, as some people think. No, he is being patient for your sake.

***He does not want anyone to perish***,

so he is giving more time for everyone to repent.

Sure He knows the hearts of men, (we see out of a needles eye), but He see's the full picture - even to the of soul and spirit, of both joints and marrow, and quick to discern the thoughts and intents of the heart.

Judas could have been saved, if He wasn't too proud to repent!

Jesus died for ALL men, not just a few.

There is always Free Will, however, God is outside of time and knows who will come to Him. I don't think He chooses who will come because He desires for all to come, but He knows who will come.

As far as choosing vessels......I have a friend that could watch Buffy the Vampire slayer and see God in it. (I don't recommend that for most people) God can use anyone or anything to express His will and sometimes it comes from what we see as a secular or dishonorable vessel. He speaks to us, sometimes in ways beyond what we can comprehend. He tries to use what we will be able to grasp and hold on to. For me, I was able to see God in Avatar and His Holy Spirit as the connecting force that connects us to each other and to all around us. But I seriously doubt that was what the author/director intended. However, the Great Author can choose what He desires to make us understand what would otherwise be beyond our understanding.

But sir you have forgotten free will. God has chosen those that He knows will accept the invitation. God does not live in the constraints of time as we do. He can see the end from the beginning. People can and do choose for themselves. If we can't then we are all robots and there is no reason for this life we live here on earth. Christ came and died so ALL could be saved. He took care of ALL sin including the sins of those who would reject Him. I do not agree with all of the TULIP acronym. But I do agree that people are totally depraved and can do no good on their own and I also agree with once saved always saved.

Does the sovereignty of God and the free will of man work together somehow beyond our ability to understand how?

Not at all, I find this Romans 9 very easy to understand. It tell of Israel not compling to the will of God, in unbelief and that those who, by faith have passed them by for salvation. This is a simple demonstration of the works of the law will not earn you salvation but it is by Faith. God has given his people all kinds of chances to come to him, by the "free will" of men, they chose to try and do the works for salvation. The Gentiles will gain salvation by Grace. The Jews are given the chance but the chose to ignore the Grace of God.

What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith.

31But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.

32Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;

33As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

We don't read chapter 9 on its own. We start at the first verse of the letter to the Roman Christians, and read the whole thing in one sitting till we get to the last verse.

Then, when we come to chapter 9 and verses 14 to 15, we have no difficulty at all. We read, "Is God unjust? Not at all! For he says to Moses, 'I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.' It does not, therefore, depend on man's desire or effort, but on God's mercy." And we don't feel any anger at God for tolerating those with hard hearts until they are finally cast off, because we know that we had hard hearts - until God removed our hearts of stone and gave us a heart of flesh. Not because of anything we had done, but because of his mercy, excercised in sovereign grace. We, too, had been just like Pharaoh, until God dealt with us in grace.

Christians have been blessed by the sovereign will of God, and we know that every single last person who has been elected unto salvation will be saved - as we have been. We will desire to be part of God's process of sending the gospel out into all the inhabited earth, and praying for the salvation of those who sincerely cry out to God. We cannot possibly fully understand the sovereign grace of God this side of eternity but God has told us enough to enable us to bless his holy name and to accept his will, in faith.

It is a paradox, but also partially understandable.

To understand that God is not trapped in time and that He is all knowing doesn't cancel out man's free will.

Yet God "knows", that doesn't mean we are not called to act and re-act.

The idea of God's Sovereignty is abused usually.