Mormons: Why don't you believe your own doctrine?

Because current a current prophet is the mouthpiece of God until he dies and then all he said becomes opinion.

@Witness come now dear, how is that us anti's can keep up with the ever changing mormonism and all the different opinions of the mormons??? It is hard to know which is opinion or which is doctrine.

1. You cannot cremate your body, now you can

2. the indians are laminites, (DNA) now they are Asians!

3. Joseph saw another angel with a sword this time when he got the polygamy prophecy. Now it is Moroni with NO SWORD

4. I was never allowed to date outside of my religion in UT, Now all Mormons are allowed to do this!

5. The mark of Cain, oh no it is a mark of a curse now.

6. the way to Identity an angel is not taught anymore. so sad this is.

7. The waters are no longer controlled by satan.

8. I was taught I would get a world with my husband, now they claim co-creator with God.

9. God has many wives. God only has one wife.

10. Jesus has three earthy wives. Jesus has no wives.

11. Jesus is a God, really???

12. I could go on and on and one....do you want me to???

Edit 2: witness really JS was chosen by whom??? he is the only prophet who hates the bible and calls it corrupt and introduces a whole set of other books. All the other prophets of old in the Old and New testament never had a problem with the Torah or what Paul was teaching (well one or two apostles went different ways) but they nmever said the doctrine or Torah was corrupt so they have to come up with their own scriptures that some ANGEL gave them (like Mohammad).

Ok I got to go do some Homework.

@Munky I am just going from what some Mormons on here claim, but yea, my dad and I (even though I am an ex-Mormon) still believe the water is in control of Satan. My dad tells me of a story on his mission trip and even I have had an issue with water myself....kind of strange...getting too sleepy in a hot tub...could have boiled to death...I guess....Satan....anyways....my dad and I still believe the laminites are the indians and some other JofD beliefs while my brothers where never taught any of this...weird and they claim it is the same theology.

D&C 1:38 is a direct quote from: I mean who does JS think he is GOD, this is what God says about his own WORD!!!

.Matthew 24:35

Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away.

Mark 13:31

Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away.

Luke 21:33

Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away.

When the Lord had spoken, He has spoken and His word shall not pass away until it is fulfilled, then He will take it away. However, He is not speaking continuously, the prophet has the ability to think for himself and say things which are not of prophetic nature. The Lord does not edit everything a prophet says, even if it is wrong. Therefore a prophet is allowed personal opinion, ie: not prophetic notices.

As for your second quote, all I can say is context. You did not give enough to tell who Joseph F. Smith was speaking of, so I cannot comment on who one of the biggest frauds the world has ever seen by the prophet was. And since Doctrines of Salvation is not one of the doctrinal books of the Church, it is a book of personal thought. For all I know Joseph Fielding Smith was speaking of someone who he had a personal grudge against.

truly there are "many aspects" to mormonism. and every antimormon i have ever encountered has been wrong because of the WAY they quote doctrines and then bend it towards their own vain imagination. most anti mormon literature is based on speculation not on fact and when i have disected every quote with every word i find that most anti mormons are listening to rumors rather then the holy ghost.

dont get me wrong there is a lot of false doctrines within the church. ive proven that in several ways. mankind can only know what they are taught regardless of having a prophet.

not all prophets today understand every doctrine. but WE are asked to be wise and understand doctrines by studying.

joseph smith was chosen, there is no doubt.

where doubts come in, whether the prophet or any prophet speaks, is when the lord has not spoken.

"This is a serious question. Whenever I answer a post about Mormonism with quotes from various prophets in my answer, or even verses from your Book of Mormon and Doctrine and Covenants, I get down voted and I am told that it isn't doctrine."

Because the things you've said on your previous posts aren't doctrine. Not everything a prophet says is doctrine. That's what you do not understand and you don't see it. Wasn't everyone expected to follow the words of Isaiah, Abraham, and the prophets of old?

No. Here's a better idea. Reread my post. Obviously it does make sense since 3 people gave it a thumbs up. My post is really easy to understand.

I agree with Phog you should know how official doctrine is received by the church. It's kind of shocking that you don't considering how you are a former member.

The guidelines for it can be found in D&C, basically, the leaders agree to a measure being doctrine, they pray about it etc. then it's passed along to others to sustain as a group, such can be found in conference sessions and then they basically approve it as doctrine. That officially is doctrine. Anything else is basically Non-Canonical gravy. Sorry to disappoint you but that's how the church has basically set up what doctrine is.

It is common practice on Yahoo answers for antagonists of the church to hunt up sundry quotes and present them without context or understanding in such a way that it says something totally different than what was intended by the original meaning.

The quote from Joseph Fielding Smith for example. He is referring to to Joseph Smith, and it does not support the view, although it is presented as if it did, that everything Joseph Smith said is to be taken as doctrine. Joseph Smith was once asked with a ridiculous over reverence "do I have the privileged of flashing my optics on a prophet of God?" To which the prophet replied "maybe you do, do you want to wrestle?" Do you expect me to take this joke as doctrine; that we believe in wrestling as a method of determining prophetic callings?

The problem you are having relates to a misunderstanding of exactly what constitutes doctrine. Just because someone gets ordained as the prophet does not mean that they are suddenly only ever speaking what God would wan them to speak. A prophet is not immune to making mistakes, and that is part of the reason why God has set up the system that he has for accepting things as scripture.

In order for something to be added into what we call "the Standard Works" or our scripture it has a process that it must go though.

The first step after the prophet receives the revelation is that the Prophet his counselors and the quorum of the 12 Apostles meet together and all pray about it to find out for themselves if this is a revelation that God has given and to determine what He wants done with it (if appropriate or needed). If the revelation is to be added to the standard works they will take it before the church in General Conference and present it to the church for acceptance.

After that a revelation will become what we call scripture.

Presenting the revelation to the church has several reasons behind it. One is so that we can know what it is that God wants us to know. Another is simply to prevent confusion. The one that I feel is the most important is that it provides an opportunity for the members to gain a testimony of that revelation. We do not just encourage those people the missionaries are working with to pray for a testimony. Every member is encouraged to pray to know about every single doctrine that they learn about. When our last prophet, Gordon B Hinckley, died and Thomas S Monson was ordained as the Prophet, members everywhere were encouraged (by culture or by being directly told) to pray and find out for themselves if he was actually the prophet. We are a revelatory church. Every member is entitled to receive revelation at least for themselves. But there is an order to that revelation.

When we run across something that a prophet may have said that is not included in our scripture it does not mean that it is not a true statement and it does not mean that it was not inspired by God. What it means is that we need to ponder and pray about that statement and find out for ourselves if that is a true statement and how it applies in our lives.

The reason that we discourage those not of our faith from using things not in our scripture to talk about our doctrine is simply because the process of determining the truthfulness of anything involves a willingness to accept those doctrines that are already established and accepted by the Church as a whole.

Take the passage that every person who is taught by the missionaries hears at one point in their lessons Moroni 10:3-5 if you take the steps in there and list them out you get the following.

1 Read the Book of Mormon

2 Remember what God has done for you and all of mankind from the creation of Adam till now. If you know about the Bible then remember what you know about God from that.

3 Pray with real intent and ask God if Book of Mormon is God's word.

4 Receive the answer from the Holy Ghost.

That is the process that every member goes through for everything we gain a testimony of, so if someone come in and does not accept our doctrine and starts to pick and choose things to quote as they will from sources outside of our scripture to determine our beliefs then they are missing a very important and very necessary part of the process that God has given for us to gain a testimony of anything.

I hope that clears things up for you.

Some of the things you have said were clearly antimormon propaganda. They like to take things out of context in order to embarass the church. The church is true. It's the propaganda that is false.

There are many ways to interpret scripture; only through the Holy Spirit can one read it as it was meant to be read. The spirit teaches us the original intent of the author, whether it is the testimony of men or God. Clearly, you have lost the spirit, if you ever had it. You have started asking the kinds of questions that people ask, when they have started to reject the Holy Ghost.

I thought you were an ex-LDS, RM, in the bishopric........if that were so you ought to know this.....

but ok. I'll play.

some things to note on doctrine and it's presentation or interpretation.....

1. prophets are not infallible - they are men chosen to speak for God sometimes. other than that they are men with passions and opinions and thoughts of their own. some of those may be incorrect or misunderstood. making mistakes are a part of progression - even prophets, as men, have that to go through and learn from.

2. prophets are men who live during a specific time. there will be cultural and contemporary beliefs that effect the way a doctrine is understood @a specific time.

3. there are a lot of things about which the scriptures are not specifically clear on and which the church has made no official declaration. doctrine, in order to be binding upon the church, must be presented and sustained in conference.

you can read more here.....

http://www.fairlds.org/apol/ai231.html

even the scripture you quote (D&C 1:38) says "what I the Lord have spoken"......not what my people may have understood, or what they have inferred from that - what I have spoken. even what the Lord has spoken from the OT has come under different understandings through the centuries.

that is WHY God (and His prophets) caution(s) us to ponder and pray concerning these things so that we may know the truth.....in the end He gives us guidelines, but we are responsible for our own decisions and actions and beliefs and knowledge and understanding.....

and they absolutely ARE prophets of the Lord God......just as they were in the OT/NT/BoM

edit: my bad - must have been someone else.....

you didn't look @the link @all did you?.......JFS (1901-18) said not every word spoken was doctrine, HBL (1972-3) said it, BY commented on cultural influences on revelation, JS commented on infallibility........the leaders of the church have ALWAYS said this (w/the possible exception of one statement from BY I think).

the content of approved church publications does not claim the same endorsement that the standard works receive...but they are prepared with great care and are carefully screened before they are published. every effort is made to ensure they meet with doctrinal ideas and policy of the church. care is taken that they carry messages sound in doctrine and harmonic with currently approved policies and procedures so that they can merit the confidence and approval of both leaders and general membership. IOW, we do our best to meet the expectations --- but the fact remains that we are human and God does not always speak all the time for all the leaders.....or even for the prophet. He allows even the prophet to remain human. JFS, BKP, DHO, LS have all talked about it.

a church that is living, growing, is also naturally going to be evolving.....it basically guarantees that not all truth is going to be known on all things @all times.....(think line upon line, precept upon precept (JS) or parables (JC)). it is how we learn. it only makes sense that information will be interpreted using glasses colored by the existing day/time.

the prophets/leaders are not perfect, but they are called of God. and they may speak as men, but may speak scripture as well. THAT is why the LDS church makes sense to me.....because every person may know for themselves whether they speak the truth through the same power that revelation is given: the power of the Holy Ghost. in fact, it is each members responsibility to do so. we have not been cautioned to blindly accept (although some have said that if we should choose that we won't go too far wrong)....we have ALWAYS been cautioned to read, study, ponder, pray. the responsibility is ours - we are each responsible for ourselves. THAT makes sense.

Thats easy. They believe every word of their "prophets", both past and present, until they see how wrong they are. Then it was just them being men, not "prophets"

If it contradicts whatever point they are trying to prove it isnt official doctrine....just opinions.

In other words....they make it up as they go.

Manifest Destiny: You taught me something....I had no idea that they had changed the water controlled by satan thing. My grandma must have never got that memo....she still refuses to let anyone swim in her pool on sunday. And, about 7 years ago, my brother wasnt allowed to swim on his mission....because satan would take the opportunity to get rid of him. (MTC actually said those words to him) Crazy how often things change.

Edit: Rrosskop

"You have started asking the kinds of questions that people ask, when they have started to reject the Holy Ghost."

I have always found this odd. Why is asking questions wrong? Why are some questions off limits? Since when is trying to understand something better a wrong thing? Why is it an automatic "holy ghost rejection" and not just simply a question? Its no wonder why people think mormonism is a cult.