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Why was the ? about Calvinism and Rev. 3:20 deleted?
My answer was going to be: It's funny they say He was speaking to a church and not an individual. But a church is made up of a bunch of individuals. God is still speaking to us. Yes, you are correct. It shows the free will to get saved AGAIN, and that God did not predestine people to hell. We have a choice on the matter. Calvinists cannot handle me. I give this from that chapter:
Revelation 3:1-5 - ..."I know your works, that you have a name that you are alive, but you are dead. Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die, for I have not found your works perfect before My God. Remember therefore how you have received and heard; hold fast and repent. Therefore if you will not watch, I will come upon you as a thief, and you will not know what hour I will come upon you. Nevertheless you have a few names in Sardis who have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with Me in white, for they are worthy. He who overcomes shall be clothed in white garments, and I will not blot out his name from the Book of Life; but I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels." ~ Note: These people had the name of being a Christian thinking they had eternal life, but they had become spiritually dead. Some had the chance to live because He says they were only ready to die. The term "ready to die" is of eternal death. They are subject to eternal misery in hell. They were not living the life of how they first received the word. They had defiled their garments (by sin) and needed to overcome this to be worthy enough to eventually walk with Christ in white garments; or else He will blot out their name from the Book of Life. The word "defiled" is used in the NT of those who have not kept themselves pure from the defilement of sin, who have soiled themselves by fornication and adultery. You must overcome and conquer sin if you fell back into the bondage of it. Repent and turn back to God for help.
BTW, Revelation 13:8 proves that not everyone's name gets started in the Book of Life. Some people say everyone starts in the Book of Life to make it look like this Scripture above doesn't mean a loss of salvation from someone who was saved. But only saved people get their names written in the Book of Life. So this does mean saved people can get their names blotted out by God from the Book of Life. Then they would no longer be saved.
Revelation 3:16 - "So then, because you are lukewarm, and neither hot nor cold, I will vomit you out of My mouth." ~ Note: Christ wants to vomit these believers out of His mouth. Then they would not be in Christ anymore. In very vivid terms, the Lord rejects the half-hearted efforts of self-satisfied Christians. If someone has become wealthy and thinks they have need of nothing (Rev.3:17), they just might get vomitted out. The word "lukewarm" is of the condition of the soul wretchedly fluctuating between a torpor (a state of being inactive, sluggishness) and a fervour (great warmth of emotion, zeal) of love. If we really love God, we will obey and keep His word (John 14:21,23).
"Once Saved, Always Saved" IS WRONG.
Try saying "O.S.A.S." and no loss of salvation can happen after reading this:
2 Peter 2:20,21 - For if, after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the latter end is worse for them than the beginning. For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered to them. ~ Note: The word knowledge means precise and correct knowledge, used in the NT of the knowledge of things ethical and divine. This is about real Christians who have been changed by the Lord Jesus Christ. They had the correct knowledge of Him. To be again entangled in the pollutions of the world means to be again involved in the foulness of the ungodly mass of mankind. The word overcome also means to be conquered by one, forced to yield to one. Here it means to be conquered by and forced to yield to sin. Then that makes t
...the person a slave of sin again, as the previous verse, 2:19, implies. The word known in known the way of righteousness also means know well, to become thoroughly acquainted with. This is definitely about a former true Christian who was set free from sin, but then turned from that and became a slave of sin again. The latter end is one's last state. So these people will have a worse punishment in hell than if they never got saved to begin with.
BTW, some people try to say 2 Peter 2:20,21 is about the false teachers, but the context of Scripture proves that is not true. In 2 Peter 2:18 there is "For when they speak great swelling words of emptiness." THAT is the false teachers, but not the ones who the warning is for... "they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through lewdness, the ones who have actually escaped from them who live in error." Those are real Christians. They escaped already from the lost people who live in error. These saved people are what the warning of 2:20,21 i
2 Peter 3:17,18 - You therefore, beloved, since you know this beforehand, beware lest you also fall from your own steadfastness, being led away with the error of the wicked; but grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To Him be the glory both now and forever. Amen. ~ Note: To fall from also means to lose it, to perish, to fall powerless, be without effect of the divine promise of salvation. The word wicked doesn't have to be someone very evil. It means one who breaks through the restraint of law and gratifies his lusts. The grace of God doesn't allow you to gratify your lusts. If you are led into that, this implies loss of salvation.
6 Answers
- 1 decade agoFavorite Answer
From one 'STRIVING' Christian to another... keep working out your salvation through the LORD JESUS! - You are absolutely correct concerning all the things written above!
Pay no attention to any comments that oppose what Jesus has taught you through the years!
In the end the Truth will be revealed... IF you hang on to the end, through the Mercy and Grace of the Lord Jesus! You "shall be" saved! And as the prophets proclaimed, your righteousness will then shine brighter than the noonday sun! They will know that the Lord has loved you!
But if we deny Him, He will deny us... If we turn back from Him, He will turn back from us... don't be a Solomon or a Saul. The Lord does not force us to follow Him, neither does He force us to stay!
Nothing in this life is worth what our Lord Jesus is worth! NOTHING!... We need to constantly examine ourselves in order to see if we are presently walking in the Faith of our God or not... The devil is so smart, he will use the most innocent things to deter us from our steadfastness, no matter how long it takes him!
Jean Calvin murdered a man named Michael Servetus (not sure of that spelling though) Just because his theology differed from his own. So do not be surprised if his children also become murderous in word and deed! He showed us what he was made of, and so did Luther.
People like Calvin and Luther are the same as the Jews of old, and the same as the Catholics they opposed... They strain out a gnat and swallow a Camel!
They are "the like" which Paul spoke about in the 2nd chapter of Romans... always pointing the finger at the "obviously" evil ones, and yet never consider themselves! They are no different than the Jews, the Mormons, the Mohammedans, and the very Catholics they opposed! (insignificant religions... not "followers" of Jesus)
My last comment is directed to those that seek "so desperately" for the easy-button salvation.
"Calvinists are a people that want God, but are simply unwilling to give up their passions for this world". So they invent things in the scriptures in order to make life easy and comfortable for them.
They want God, no doubt, but they want Him "without struggle", "without pain", "without sacrifice". This is clearly not the Gospel of our Lord and Savior! It is another Gospel.
Source(s): 30 years of reading the Bible - chrisLv 71 decade ago
No your understanding of "once saved always saved" is wrong.
What the term means that the moment through free will that we choose Christ our salvation is secure as long as we remain in the choice.
In light of other scripture such as your reference we can tell as does the Lord if your "choice" is real or not. One cannot serve god and mammon for example.
This does not mean ones salvation is taken away but that one has not Truly chosen Christ as evidenced by the works of the holy spirit with in the individual.
So, once Truly saved, Always saved.
- 1 decade ago
Whoa! You are treading in dangerous waters my friend. Read Acts 2:37-38. Amazing how easy it is. "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works lest any man should boast." Ephesians 2:8-9. What you are trying to say is that we have to earn salvation. And the only way we can earn something is to work for it or to do something for it. If these two verses don't explain it for you, than I don't know what else to say. These verses in Revelation talk about those who faked being a Christian. And then it goes on to say that these people were rich. They were putting their trust in the money, not in Christ. They weren't Christians at all! The bible doesn't contradict itself at all. John 3:16- "that whosoever believeth in Him, should not perish, but have everlasting life."
Source(s): Ephesians 2:8-9 Once saved, always saved!! - ReneLv 71 decade ago
God knows before you are even born if you will be saved or not in the end. Why would He EVER write your name in the book of life if he would later remove it? That means God can make a mistake. Once Saved Always Saved IS biblical. Loss of salvation is NOT! It makes God a liar.
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- 1 decade ago
Just wanted to say Rev 3:20 is not missing from my bible. What version are you looking at. the Catholic Bible added a book Which has pergatory There is no such place
Source(s): Old and new King James N.I.V. and the amplified - Anonymous1 decade ago
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index;_ylt=ApbrZ...
We should not confuse "once saved always saved" with being Calvinist. Though true, this is one position within Calvinism (among others)--but there are many non-Calvinists who also believe this is true (such as myself). Once saved always saved, is right. Calvinists still have lots of other things they are wrong about though--limited atonement & irresistible grace, just to name a couple.
Source(s): I see nothing in 2 Peter 3:17-18 about losing salvation. I could equally equate false teachers with "swelling words" to those who are saying we can lose our salvation.
