Do we often treat human sexual orientation as this false dichotomy?

God made rules 4 His house (which never change)-defy him eventually u r thrown out=God's love ISNT unconditional-no1 is automatically God's child b/c of sin. We cant know whats right w/o right personal relationship with Jesus (only Jesus can rewire our brains 2 accept whats right/true). U cant b gay & Christian(can fool urself but not God)but ppl CONFUSE TRUTH[offends many]/HATE. Any1 who sleeps with/marries their own gender is in effect sleeping with/marrying themselves=abominations [the real VALID REASON=right vs wrong love]-distorts/merges/blurs God's male/female creation characteristics/attributes/purpose (Lev 18:22/Rm 1:26-32/1 Pt 4:3-4/Gal 5:19-21). Even 1 man/woman marriages cant b rightly put 2gether w/o knowing God's/Jesus' purpose 4 it.

All men r capable of same sins (no1 can live w/o breaking God's eternal Law=sin-punishment=death). No its not easy 4 believers given world's approval of sin(hardwired/by choice) but we cant remain in sin & b Christian (we must make effort 2 try not 2 repeat sins-only possible thru Jesus/Bible).

God created Adam&Eve(1rst chosen ppl not 1rst ppl) not Adam&Steve. God does nothing w/o a purpose/created: woman 2 help/serve man/2 procreatenot 2 teach, except 4 children)/man 2 lead/teach God's way 2 family/others. God/His purpose never changes-He cant make a mistake (only 1 God can occupy infinity, God of Israel-only fully proved b/c Jesus is God's Son/wasnt speaking out 2 nor 1000s of sides of His mouth=no confusion.

But God can 4give sinners=why Jesus died 4 our sins. B/c God did this most loving thing & Jesus fully obeyed God all must go 2 Jesus 2 b saved (Jn 14:6/Acts 4:12). Only Jesus (perfect Physician) can change us 2 what God accepts-CANT CHANGE OURSELVES b/c we cant know God's purpose 4 us w/o Jesus(Jn 3:3,5/5:39). Accept/promote/do sins like being gay r against God. Ur innocent child sees 2 men holding hands (CHILD THINKS ITS OK/normal 2 do it=copy adults like 4 pot use-1 sign 4 end-times=disasters will increase).

God cant look upon sin (2 remain perfect)-separates us from God-only way 2 get past this eternal barrier required 1 2 b perfect sacrifice (Lamb of God w/o spot/blemish) 2 fulfill God's eternal Law-4 this God gave Jesus full authority over all things in Heaven/on earth(Mt 28:18). 2 b healed of our sins we must b Born Anew (Jn 3:3,5-Nicodemus was very religious but Jesus told him he missed most important step-1 must b Born Anew=being very religious/good in man's eyes cant get u in2 Heaven).

Reading the Bible (religious/not) u cant find Jesus w/o His Biblical directions (Jn 5:39/10:1,7). Only a Bible cant b properly known w/o Jesus (Jn 14:6/II Cor 3:14/Is 29:11-12-If Jewish ppl cant unveil OT w/o Jesus all gentiles cant=why many interps exist/called fairy tales).

Why most religions r built on gods man likes/impose human limits/labels 4 knowing things 2 God's abilities-cant all b right(only 1 Bible-why so many interps? II Pet 1:19-21). Religion cant teach much about God (cant teach what u don't know). Who knows more about a house the Builder/ppl moving in later?

In history only Jesus said He's the way/truth/life/cant know God w/o Him(Jn 14:6/5:39)=whole truth is complete in Him or its a lie=no God(knows all or not God). All claimed new/other beliefs/from self-proclaimed prophets/teachers r false/godless or He's 1 more false prophet 2 ignore.

Jesus couldnt hv done whats in NT w/o knowing whole OT (impossible w/o God/NT didnt exist yet/Apostles couldnt write NT w/o Jesus having them remember all He did(Lk 24:25-27,45).

God knew ppl would [un]intentionally twist His Word so He used an unchangeable system (like God/Jesus-more visible in word 4 word [with right amnt of literal method] Bible versions [best is ESV]-Prv 30:4-6).

Many/churches r on wrong paths=dont believe everything told 2 u. Many ways seem right but its end=death (Pr 3:19)--1rst pray 2 Jesus, then carefully search the Bible 4 the truth. Churches knowing Born Anew process/making every effort 2 follow the Bible might help but cant save u. Salvation is thru Jesus/His word). Carefully think over what I say. Dont just believe/dismiss what I write--might save u from getting in2 godless religions (poisoned tree/its fruit). U must know Jesus/Bible 2 know if a church is on/remains on right path.

Religion (& spirit of) is about a generic god not what Jesus taught about God. God hates us b/c of our sins--being judged as good by men/religion cant save u but God also loves us (why He sent His Son 2 die 4 our sins--so thru Jesus our sins could b 4given if we sincerely turn 2 Him=Eternal hope is only in Jesus Christ/His Bible). Whoever seeks Jesus with all his heart&soul will find our real God/His Kingdom (u'll know the truth/sets u free). U can lead a horse 2 water but u cant make them drink. Why should God want u 2 live with Him 4ever if u dont want 2 know Him His way (free will=Jn 1:12-13)?

voyc4rmwldrns

Sexual orientation has shown to be a mixture of genetic and environmental factors. Now the main reason that 'choice' has become such an issue in the religious debate regarding sexuality is that for something to be sinful it must be chosen. If it is not a choice then it makes as much sense as God condemning someone for the color of their skin.

The main reason homosexuality is condemned is much the same reason masturbation is condemned. When the versus were originally written, it was during a time when the Jewish people wanted children. In the ancient world, homosexuality wasn't uncommon and it wasn't condemned in most civilizations. However the result of such activities produce no children.

The Jewish people at the time understood that semen was necessary to produce children, and it became sacred to them in that to waste seed was to become an abomination. Now the Jews cared about children because they wanted to increase the population. More people means more power right? Well that was the original purpose behind it.

There are a number of other versus in Corinthians that condemn pork, and shellfish. Why? Because they were dangerous to eat at the time.

Now, it's just an out of date piece of. . . *ahem*

Now as to why people care so much about homosexuality but not shellfish when they're both abominations and only a few versus apart in the good book.

People care for the same reason they dislike cross dressers that are straight, the same reason calling a group a boys 'sissy' is an insult. It is an innate sexism against women. For a man to act feminine is wrong, to be called feminine an insult, to be anything associated as a woman, or less than a woman is considered an insult.

It's an underlying tone of sexism at its finest in modern society.

The advocates of homosexuality here beg the question. They won't allow the actual experience of those who have chosen homosexuality or heterosexuality to interfere with their a-priori bias.

Humans are designed by God to be radically free, so that our sexuality is polymorphous. Men can be and have been excited to orgasm by women, men, children, pictures, movies, animals, disembodied voices in phone sex, urination, defecation, physical punishment, sex toys, and dozens of other stimuli. Nothing is instinctive.

The only thing natural is the sexual drive. All the objects of that drive are deliberately chosen and become attraction over time as fulfillments of the sexual drive. This is why God can say that only one choice--committed man-woman marriage--is the only legitimate fulfillment of the sexual drive.

Cheers,

Bruce

I think sexuality is more of a spectrum than a dichotomy. Some people are on the far end of the spectrum and have always felt that way. Others may be more in the middle and do make a choice to some degree. Personally, I don't care if it is a choice or not. If a man loves a man, or a woman loves a woman, they should live their life in a way that makes them happy and fulfilled. Life is too short. I know plenty of homosexual people in great and loving relationships. Who am I to say how they should live their lives?

I wouldnt take the 'i was homosexual, now im heterosexual' thing serious. Because, there is no such thing. As you said yourself, we as human beings are complex, but it doesnt take much thought to come to the conclusion that we can get quite confused when it comes to ourselves. Some of the people you are talking about were never gay in the first place, and just thought they were. Some of them still are.

The fact that your display picture is a tiger tells me you have some sort of knowledge of animals, correct? Homosexuality is throughout the entire animal kingdom. Since you believe in god, i dont see you accepting the fact that we too are nothing but animals, but i can assure you it is completely natural and absolutely never a choice.

mg

if someone you know was gay, and now isnt, then either they werent gay, or they are living in a way they think makes them acceptable to the soceity they live in

thats life

repression is something we CAN do, easily, we all do it, but it doesnt leave us without any effects

you can be sure there are efects

really look at who these people are, their real soul mg, not just the face they present to everyone, but who they are

as ypou say its not so black and white, but, its simple in a way too, you cant change what you are, if its biology, so IF it IS biology, and they repress it, what is the reality of that

its not happiness

if its a choice, why did they choose to be gay inthe first place?

why dont we allo choose it?

how easy is it for you or those you know to 'choose' to be gay, or straight?

its not a matter of views, its a mater of reality, fact, biology and none of those suggest that you can choose to be straight, so how could you choose to be gay

i dont agree mg, if the christian god exists, it isnt fair, at all, its probably the least fair god out of all the gods in my view

like you said, it doesnt make sence this god would make peopel gay (or anything else) and then condemn them, but this is the description of the christian god that christianty gives , we take on face value what christianty says about its god

and it says, its all powerful, created us, and everything, that includes homosexuality

but, just cos it doesnt make sence to you, or sit well, doesnt mean its impossible

Actually, most of the evidence seems to suggest both genetic and environmental factors at work:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biology_and_sexual_or...

Regardless, the people largely claiming "it's a choice" are Christian zealots who believe that since the Bible condemns homosexuality along with a list of various behaviors, that it too must be some sort of controllable behavior and thus a "sin". But if it's genetic, then they know they don't really have much of an argument.

I agree that it's a false dichotomy: whether it's genetic or environmental, I don't see anything wrong with it. Nobody has to be subjected to the dogma of Christianity or any other particular religion if they don't want to.

Sexual preference is innate. Sexual activity is a choice.

Most people are born bisexual, to an extent. A lot of gay men have wives and children. Clearly they were able to achieve sexual release with a woman, in order to have kids with her. A lot of straight people, when denied access to the opposite sex, engage in homosexual activity.

We can control whether we are capable of falling in love with someone, by putting up barriers between us and them. But we can't choose to fall in love with anyone. Love doesn't work that way.

I think that someone who falls in love with someone of the same gender--true love, until death do them part--is in no way committing a sin. I think that a person who finds themself more attracted to the same gender than the opposite gender, and dates--and has sexual relations with--people of the same gender for this reason, is no more a sinner than a heterosexual who dates and has sex with people of the opposite gender.

I think, however, that if a person is primarily attracted to the opposite gender, yet is unable to have access to the opposite gender, and therefore finds sexual release with someone of the same gender, is committing an abomination in the eyes of the Lord. That's where the choice comes in--these people choose to pervert their true nature for the sake of convenience.

To bring this into a Biblical perspective, that last type of homosexuality is most likely what Paul was talking about in his letters. The Romans were well known for their debauchery, and for older men seducing adolescent boys. This practice came about because women were secluded, to protect their virginity until they married. Men had no access to women, but they did have access to boys. So that's where they directed their sexual efforts. That's the homosexuality with which Paul would have been familiar. Knowing that, is it any wonder he speaks in condemnation of such a thing?

It's just the age old nature vs. nurture debate rehashed again. Personally I tend to come down somewhere in the middle.

From what I have seen, even the APA has changed is stance on this issue to a combination of genetics and life experiences.

Sexual attraction itself isn't "black and white," meaning entirely hetero or homo.

It's a huge spectrum of extremes and everything in between.

You consider anything but "potentially procreative sex" a sin. I don't. Neither does most of the rest of the world. You can, of course, decide that if you want to...you *don't* have the right to demand everyone else agree with you.

Simply put, other than intellectual curiosity I don't *care* whether homosexuality (or anything in the vast spectrum of human sexuality) is genetic, hormonal, environmental, learned, a choice, or anything else. The private sexual behavior of other consenting adults is none of my business -- nor of yours. Handle your sexuality the way you want, and stay out of other people's private sex life.

And no matter what private consensual sexual acts they do or don't do, all humans merit equal rights. Period.

Peace.

Pretty much because of people like Matthew, who simply reguritate crap and never stop to think about the actual possibilities.

Although frankly I have to wonder why Christians in particular seem so obsessed with the gay issue. It makes no sense to me, why do they attack people for being gay? Why do they even care what two willing and consenting people do in the privacy of their own home? What right do they have to try and make laws to prevent those things from happening, particularly when they really should just butt out anyways. I don't get it, what's with the obsession?