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lhvinny
Lv 7
lhvinny asked in Science & MathematicsAlternativeParanormal Phenomena · 10 years ago

Believers in OBEs and NDEs: did you know?

Scientists have been able to use electromagnetic radiation delivered to the brain to create specific OBE and NDE feelings and memories?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nCVzz96zKA0

How do you know the OBE and NDE experiences you hold to be real are not the result of the brain simply being manipulated by enviromental radiation?

Can you understand why a skeptic would find claims about OBEs and NDEs unconvincing even if they experienced the OBE or NDE themself?

Update:

Of course our understanding of gravity and electromagnetism are incomplete. Complete understading would require omniscience, which is impossible.

The understanding we do have, however, shows that they are natural phenomenon requiring no supernatural influence to function.

I would be interested in the set up of the OBE confirmation experiment. Experiments have have included asking the astral projector to read numbers on a display on the wall behind them. None have done so with more accuracy than random guessing.

Update 2:

At no point did I claim that all OBEs and NDEs could be reduced to one cause. I asked how a believer in these phenomenon would rule out a verified naturalistic explanation for their experience in favor of a supernatural one without adding a large number of assumptions or leaning towards fallacious thinking. I will admit to falling prey to Occam's Razor quite easily, but I am ever close-minded to the point of thinking my conclusion cannot be wrong.

I checked out the websites posted and read many of the articles there-in. I am not convinced of many of the claims (especially when they try to link quantum mechanics and a macro-molecule as large as DNA) but I will continue to do reasearch to form an informed conclusion.

6 Answers

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  • military supporter
    Lv 7
    10 years ago
    Favorite Answer

    I took a college about NDEs. The case that is the most researched is the Pam Reynolds incident. It is well documented by a world class neurosurgeon and a full team of nurses and asst doctors. I recommend you read the whole report. It is undeniable. These people are above reproach.

  • ?
    Lv 5
    10 years ago

    Both NDE's and OBE's are specific experiences with some aspects that have been duplicated by other means, but never have all aspects of these experiences, especially of NDE's been duplicated. Rather it is a case of 'since we can duplicate these few aspects, we can dismiss the entire experience', and this is a logical fallacy. I could likewise pick a few plays out of any game and use them to define who won the game, which may or may not be accurate. These approaches might indicate aspects of the brain that might be involved in the phenomena, but do not necessarily indicate a cause and effect connection.

    Another comparison might be to television, Just because I can attach a dvd player to my television and cause it to display specific movies, have I demonstrated that all things displayed on my television are the result of using a dvd player?

  • Thomas E
    Lv 7
    10 years ago

    And they would be wrong, for OBEs and NDEs are quite convincing- I've had an OBE and am also aware of the spiritual realm since my parents passed. It is no artificial construct of the mind.

  • ?
    10 years ago

    Our understanding in electromagnetic radiation is still incomplete. With modern physics being explored, new discoveries are being made which connects religion and science such as extra-dimensions.

    To prove an OBE, you can simply meet another person. If they have the same memories as you do, it is real.

    Remember, our science is still young and we do have a long way to go to fully understanding it. We don't even know what gravity is...................... wave? particle? a bend in 3d space? what about in 4d? 5d? 6d?

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  • Anonymous
    10 years ago

    While there are good reliable transcripts e.g. from Monroe Institute of multiple RV (OBE) describing same target activities at same time, one should not be willing to reduce all OBE phenomena to a single "cause," particularly if one is a) logical and/or b) self-aware of a personal reductionist/materialist prejudice.

    http://www.debunkingskeptics.com/Page23.htm

    http://www.nderf.org/

    http://www.iands.org/

    Understanding Yourself, Mark Prophet.

  • Pete 353
    Lv 4
    10 years ago

    Possibly one of the few things i attribute to a NDE to a certain extent is astral-projection.

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