TRINATARIANS: Can you explain why Jesus differentiates himself from God in John 17:3?

You will never get an "intelligent response" from Trinitarians because Jesus never claimed to be God nor did any of his followers claim this.

At John 17:1, 3 Jesus prays to the Father: "FATHER, .... this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent." - New International Version (NIV).

Here the Father alone is not only very clearly identified as the only true God, but Jesus Christ is pointedly and specifically excluded from that identification ("AND Jesus Christ whom YOU [the only true God] have sent").

Jesus' words here are in harmony with what the Bible says about the Father being Jesus' God: "Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ". (1 Pet.1:3) Jesus said, "`I am ascending to my Father and YOUR Father and to my God and YOUR God.'" (John 20:17)

Some claim that the import of John 17:1-3 can be ignored because Jesus said this as a man on earth. But even in heaven, Jesus refers to HIS God and the name of HIS God. (Rev. 3:12)

One more thing to consider:

Jesus said in John 17:3 that it means everlasting life to know God (the Father) and also Jesus. So if the Holy Spirit really is God, then why isn't the Holy Spirit mentioned here as well?

This would be an unforgivable slighting of the True God if the holy spirit were truly a person who is God (or 1/3 God, or anything else trinitarians want it to be), but it would be exactly what would be expected if the only true God were the Father alone (Jehovah alone), and if the Christ and savior were Jesus alone, and if the holy spirit were not a person but God's active force and therefore had no personal name or identity.

Is God Always Superior to Jesus?

http://www.watchtower.org/e/ti/article_06.htm

What Does the Bible Say About God and Jesus?

http://www.watchtower.org/e/ti/article_05.htm

In all the answers you have received, I found those who say that Jesus does not exist more honest than those who try to fill the hole of the so called trinity with excuses and empty talk.

X Cheir, that says,

And how do you explain John 17:10? ==

With these:

Matthew 28:18 ....“All authority has been given me in heaven and on the earth.

He (Jesus) is at God’s right hand, for he went his way to heaven; and angels and authorities and powers were made subject to him.(1 Peter 3:22)

The phrases above can only make sense if Jesus did not possess it once. Capisci?

Adios

Great question! Trinitarians try to come up with all the excuses in the book but fail to realize what the truth of the Bible has to say in the matter.

This Scripture is crucial for trinitarians. Jesus makes a very important statement that can't be refuted with ANYTHING. He didn't leave things to interpretation as trinitarians blindly accept.

When he said ONLY, what did he mean? What does ONLY mean to trinitarians?

Since the Father is the ONLY true God, that EXCLUDES anyone else. Why is that so difficult to understand!

Trinitarians continue to use theological gymnastics to try to get around the clear words and implication of John 17:3.

Here, Jesus pointedly describes his Father as "the ONLY true God." (emphasis added)

Jesus does not describe himself as God in any way, but as "the one whom you [the Father] sent forth." Jesus is sent forth from God, he is not God. Jesus cannot include himself in the designation "God," because Jesus has just declared the Father to be the ONLY God.

It also does no good to keep ignoring the fact that Jesus does not commend Thomas for the words "My Lord and my God." If anything, Jesus mildly rebukes Thomas for having to see him in order to believe. Rather, Jesus commends those who, UNLIKE THOMAS, believe on him without having to see him in the flesh.

On the other hand, in contrast to the case with Thomas, Jesus gives lavish praise and promises to Peter, who confessed him as "the Christ, the SON of the living God." (Matthew 16:16)

But Trinitarians cannot accept the fine witness of John 17:3 because it messes up their man-crafted philosophy, in which they have invested hundreds of years of inflated hermeneutics.

24 Now Thomas (also known as Didymus , one of the Twelve, was not with the disciples when Jesus came. 25 So the other disciples told him, "We have seen the Lord!" But he said to them, "Unless I see the nail marks in his hands and put my finger where the nails were, and put my hand into his side, I will not believe." 26 A week later his disciples were in the house again, and Thomas was with them. Though the doors were locked, Jesus came and stood among them and said, "Peace be with you!" 27 Then he said to Thomas, "Put your finger here; see my hands. Reach out your hand and put it into my side. Stop doubting and believe." 28 Thomas said to him, "My Lord and my God!" 29 Then Jesus told him, "Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed." John 20:28 - "Thomas answered and said to Him, 'My Lord and my God!'" In the Greek in John 20:28 Thomas said to Jesus, "ho kurios mou, kai ho theos mou," "The Lord of me, and the God of me." John was a strict Jew, a monotheist. Does anyone really think that John would be saying that there was another God besides Jehovah, even if it were Jesus? Being raised a good Jew, the apostle John would never believe that there was more than one God in existence. Yet, he compared the word with God, said the word was God, and that the word became flesh (John 1:1,14). John 1:1 in a literal translation reads thus: "In beginning was the word, and the word was with the God, and God was the word." Notice that it says "God was the word." This is the actual word for word translation. So in closing, John would not have written any verse that would make anyone believe that Jesus was God if it were not true. Throughout the Book of John it was one of his purpose's to introduce us to whom Jesus and God are. Do you think that he would lead us astry?

Jesus never existed he was stolen from Horus of Egypt, who born of a virgin, was crucified and rose again, had 12 disciples, gave a sermon on the mount raised people from the dead was baptized by Anup the Baptiser.etc

http://exposingchristianitydotcom.wordpress.com/

http://exposingthelieofislam.wordpress.com/

http://devils88wrath.angelfire.com/enemy.html

The following articles provide proof that everything in the Christian religion and in the bible has been STOLEN from other religions that predated it from all around the world. Christianity is a tool for removing spiritual/occult knowledge from the populace so this power can be kept in the hands of a few to manipulate and enslave the masses.

To really understand the Bible and see the truth, one must be very well educated in the occult. The mass mind is very powerful. When one studies long enough and acquires advanced knowledge of the occult, the truth is utterly shocking. The entire Judeo/Christian Bible is a hoax of catastrophic proportions with a very clear objective using subliminal means and the channeled psychic energy of believers.

http://exposingchristianitydotcom.wordpress.com/

Nothing in that statement refutes the idea that Jesus is also God. Jesus does not call himself 'a man' or 'not-God'. He says that God sent him. Which is True... God *did* send Jesus into the world. But Jesus is still God, as shown by many other passages in the Bible.

Here's the thing. The Bible cannot be used to refute Trinitarianism because Trinitarianism was used to compile the Bible. The Bible was compiled in August of 397 AD at the Council of Carthage. Before that, there was no bible, just large numbers of writings floating around, some of which made their way into our Bible of today and many which were set aside as being non-inspired works. The Christian faith was (finally) defined explicitly at the councils of Nicea and Constantinople in the 320s and 330s, where the bishops used the traditions they had been given by the apostles to hammer out exactly what it was that being a 'Christian' meant... and one of those things was Trinitarianism. (The Creed clearly states that Jesus is 'One in Being' with the Father). Then, 60 years later, the bishops sorted through all of the writings about Jesus and picked the ones that MATCHED the Creed. Several accounts of Jesus' life were thrown out for having non-trinitarian bents, and those are NOT in the Bible anymore (see the Gospel of the Hebrews if you want an example. Its Adoptionist, that is, God 'adopted' Jesus during his baptism).

Contrary to common (Protestant) belief, the Bible didn't just fall out of the sky when Jesus ascended into heaven. It is the product of hundreds of years of scholarship, debate, prayer and guidance by the Holy Spirit (who is also God.) To ignore all of that history is to severely limit your understanding of what it teaches.

People also differentiate God and the Holy Spirit. But they are one.

1 John 5:7

For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word (Jesus), and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

Jesus is 3 in one. God, Jesus and the Holy spirit. He is Son of God, Son of Man and Man. He is all of this. The different gospels show the differences. Each gospel shows each one. It is not hard to figure out if you had read the gospels in this light because it makes it clear in the gospels who he is and how he is one and the same of all that I have listed here. People say the bible is complicated to read but God makes it that way because the ones who are his will understand it and it separates the buzzards from the Eagles.

Sure. Jesus and the Father are not the same person.

Let me repeat: Jesus and the Father are not the same person.

It would have been inaccurate for Jesus to say, "that they might know me alone, the only person who is the true God, Jesus Christ". It would have been inaccurate to say, "that they might know you alone, the only person that is the true God, and not me, Jesus Christ".

In that passage Jesus differentiated himself from the Father - who is also God. He does not claim or imply in the passage, "I am not God".

This *should* settle the issue, a passage written by the very same author in the very same Biblical book:

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=john%2...

- Jim, http://www.bible-reviews.com/