I lost 40k on TVIX, how do I get my money back?

You invested in the riskiest index there is and I do not believe that this index stock has any chance at all to go to $26 in a months time. The stock had an absolute melt-down in the last 2 days. In fact I did not even know that ANY options are sold on this security at all, but if you can buy it make sure it is closer to $10 or $15 at the most and it may not even go that high up. If you buy 100 contracts at $.20 then you spend $2,000. If the strike price is $26 and IF it actually goes to $27 then your profit (less commissions) would be $0.80/share or $8,000.

http://seekingalpha.com/article/455211-2-market-me...

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-03-24/credit-su...

I wouldn't try to get the money back at all. You speculated and you lost money. The worst thing that you can do is to continue dwelling on a loss. You can drive yourself crazy doing that. The idea is to find something that is going to go up in price. A speculation is a dangerous thing to put your money into unless you actually know it will go up in price.

TVIX seeks to make money by betting on the return of the S&P 500 VIX short-term futures index. If you really understand what it means to invest in that then you should know when it's a good time to speculate on it. If you don't understand the futures market then you should not have anything to do with it. That is not investing. It's speculating.

There are other investments you can make that will have a better chance of making you money. My advice: Don't invest in indexes. Invest in equities. The stock market. Make sure you're investing in something you understand and something that is tied to actual value.

If you think the price will go back up then hold on to what you've got. If not take your loss, which will also give you a tax loss which can be used to offset any other gains you have this year, and put that money into something else.

The questions you might ask yourself are: Why did the price go down? What are the chances it will go back up? What factors contributed to the decline in price? What would need to happen to make that price go up again?

Sometimes the smartest thing you can do is take your loss. Throwing good money after bad isn't gonig to get your money back if it's going to go down further. You'll just lose more money.

I keep talking to you about this and somehow you think I am an idiot or something..

a) You don't understand VIX. It's really clear that your bet on VIX was wrong. Now you want to lever up on VIX calls? There is no sensible finaincial advisor anywhere who would tell you that thtat planmakes any sense at all.

b) VIX calls are bets on the volatility of volatilty. You are betting on the volatility of volatility being mispriced in the market place. That's kurtosis of S&P prices. Have much insight into the kurtosis of S&P prices? I have a Ph.D. in stats and I don't.

c) If you really wanted to buy VIX calls, buying TVIX calls seems completely retarded to me. I really think this ETN is going away. Credit Suisse is embarassed by it. They have dropped their support of it. There could be a meeting at CS this week where people get together and decide that it is time to redeem the notes. If I was at the meeting, I would sneer at anyone who thought that wasn;t the right approach. I don't know what happens to options on a synthetic ETF when the sponsor liquidates the ETF. I'll bet they just blow away your time value if you're long. If someone else here has more insight into this, I'd like to hear it.

d) You need something with a 400% return to get your money back. You should expect that will take you approximately 30 years of sensible investing.

You were completely brain dead to do this bet in the first place. When you find yourself in a hole - stop digging...

Edit: Slick is completely stupid and insists on answering questions here. Among other problems with that reply is the notion that you should bet on equities not indexes is counter to just about everything in finance. Betting on the first moment of the S&P 500 (i.e. the average price or something) is an excellent idea full of good diversification. Slick also doesn't know that VIX futures are 1256 contracts so the tax loss is marked to market at the end of the tax year (or in some sense every day) so selling a 1256 pass-through for a tax loss is retarded. Slick is retarded. I wish he would go away.

Edit 2: Forget it underexposed - you can't trade VIX with trend-following. Doesn't trend. I promise. Work out Hurst exponents which give you some idea of trending and VIX looks different than every other price stream you have ever seen....

Edit 3: How did you come to put all your eggs in the TVIX basket anyway? Honestly there might be some money for you from whoever encouraged you to do it. There might even be some money from CS (doubtful, but maybe worth a try).

Edit 4: Chris is a moron too. Buy and hold a double leveraged ETN investing in VIX futures constantly in contango because buy and hold works with everything? Read the prospectus Chris. The prospectus will tell you that if you buy and hold TVIX you should expect to lose all your money. It's right there.

Edit 5: Jim Z is encouraging this guy to trade TVIX??? WTF?

Edit 6: @strnj1: "Stuff like NLY (Annaly Capital) pays a handsome 13.6% Interest while it's lingering at the bottom and, when the real estate markets turn around, you've basically bought at the bottom"

Yet another moron. NLY doesn't own real estate - they own agency debt that they have essentially repo'ed to get leveraged up on more agency debt. They are borrowing short to lend long. And you think you want economic recovery... Let's see..with economic recovery this is Finance 101...interest rates go up. Then you are long long duration bonds and short short duration bonds so you get hammered. Why do people invest in things they don;t understand? The very most basic research would turn up this little fact. Yet strnj1 is holding NLY hoping for economic recovery and advising other people to do the same thing. What a bunch of idiots around here.

The Banks and Investment firms love short traders. They're the easiest to steal the money from...

"Lick your wounds." Learn from your mistakes and go long term. Stuff like NLY (Annaly Capital) pays a handsome 13.6% Interest while it's lingering at the bottom and, when the real estate markets turn around, you've basically bought at the bottom. As the price increase accelerates the dividend will go away as it changes from an income stock to a growth stock. Meanwhile, you reinvest your dividends and watch the number of shares grow.

Brookfield Infrastructure Partnership (BIP) pays a 5% dividend and has increased 95% in the last two years or so.

TICC pays a 10% dividend.

Don't just take my word for it. Do your own research and discard this "get rich quick" mindset.

I really feel bad for you and the others that got caught by TVIX. If any stock or ETN was a victim of this nonsensical market, TVIX takes the cake. This market has gone from a 52 wk low to a 52 wk high in just 12 weeks. It did it on declining volume, with volume at 40% lower than in 2011. The VIX went from a strong volatility , and continues to drop, in the midst of a Greek crisis. There is more to this, but I won't go into it. This rally is a total fake, but it is what it is.

The VIX indicator charts show it will continue to go down to about 10, as this market continues to climb into the summer. As much as you hate it, consider getting out this week. The correction we had this week, may have a little follow thru, but not much, the strange thing, is TVIX toppled in the small correction this week, it should have went up.

I suggest you read up on ETF's and ETN's they are not meant to buy and hold. You should be in them for more than a couple of days to a week. Especially the 2X and 3X ETF's.

I will give you a suggestion for recovery. Look at VIX on a five year weekly chart. Notice on this chart how VIX just broke a triple bottom. That means VIX and TVIX is going lower. BUT on this five year weekly chart, this ETF has recovered 3 different times in a matter of 5 or 6 weeks. The charts project VIX to go to about 45 on the recovery. This won't happen till we have a major drop in the market. I would clear out of TVIX this week (earlier the better), watch the pre market no.s to know when to sell. I am expecting two things, a 5% correction soon, but mid summer, a major correction of 10% to 15%. It will duplicate the 2010 and 2011 summer correction, then come back prior to the election. Don't try to time your entry, get confirmation with indicators for your entry point. When you get the confirmation, buy VIX the target is $45. Good luck. Here is a youtube site on TVIX. You may have to cut and paste it in your URL to view it. Learn from your mistakes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PxJyNbfNTvY&feature...

Here are three trading mistakes you made. Don't take this as criticizm , but as a learning experience.

1. You put all your eggs in one basket.

2. You bought a stock (ETF) that was in a down trend. (Never catch a falling knife).

3. You had no exit strategy or stop. (Usually 3% below support). Some use 1.5%.

4. You are not experienced with2x or 3X ETF's.

Good luck. Be determined to get your losses back, and you will.

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Man...you don't take advice well.....I gave you my opinion of this stock from a Technical Analysis perspective about 2 weeks ago....

http://ca.answers.yahoo.com/question/index;_ylt=Ao...

I was bang on just not as quick as I predicted but the result is the same.

See that @JoeyV TA works here too :) trending is trending.

http://stockcharts.com/h-sc/ui?s=TVIX&p=D&yr=0&mn=...

This shows the start of a down turn breakout...perhaps you might see a pullback to $10 but I would not hold your breath.

You ignored all the previous advice to get out of this piece of crap.

What makes you think this donkey is going to reverse direction and head back to $27 in one month's time?....you are just gambling here....as you said above you are gambling and if you really think this will happen....just hold onto your shares...Trust me I would bet against this happening in 1 month

You are not a person who follows advice....yes, you are destined to lose all your money on this plan....My advice now is to NEVER TRADE AGAIN...unless it is done through a competent Financial Adviser who won't listen to your suggestions......you know nothing about the stock market.

You can still rescue 25% of your money and not be broke.

EDIT:

@JoeyV.....you bet long on this product as I recall and I quote:

"Edit: BTW - FWIW, I would rather be long VIX than short it right now. "

You lose....Oh, yea of little faith...;)

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