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Would Carl Sagan agree with today's cosmologists about the very young cosmos?

Specifically, I'm talking about this popular craze nowadays, this thing that many cosmologists think it's "cool" to study: What happened a trillionth of a second after the big bang? Or how about 10^-25 seconds after the big bang? Oh hell, why not go all out and say 10^-86 seconds? Forget Planck time, quarks, speed of light, and quantum mechanics & nuclear physics in general. All that doesn't apply because the laws of physics were so different in the early universe. The universe's average temperature was 10^23 degrees Kelvin and the volume was 2.44 cubic Angstroms after 10^-42 seconds. Yeah, let's believe that.

I mean really people? COME ON. You're turning a respectable science into a freakin' religion.

One of the things in Carl Sagan's Baloney Detection Kit is falsifiability. How can anyone possibly prove what conditions were a trillionth of a second after the big bang? It's not like we have empirical evidence, nor can we re-create those conditions (the LHC won't help) , nor can we go back in time to take any measurements. Any claims about what the universe was like 10^-(insert two-digit number here) seconds after the big bang are inherently unverifiable and unfalsifiable. This means cosmologists can claim damn near anything they want. I mean, who's going to prove them wrong? Nobody, because it's impossible to disprove. So what good are their claims if we have to accept them on blind faith with no evidence at all whatsoever? How is that any different from religion?

At this point, you want to say:

"You have it all wrong. We're scientists... we use mathematics and run computer simulations to make predictions. We don't just make stuff up. We use logic and reason!"

Right... and what good are your calculations and simulations of a young cosmos if they don't match reality? None at all. Can you test whether they match reality? No. So the whole subject is moot. It makes no sense to talk about intelligently. It's intellectual masturbation.

6 Answers

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  • eri
    Lv 7
    9 years ago
    Favorite Answer

    The point of science is that you can apply it to anything. So why not? Just because we can't go back and see it again doesn't mean it's not useful or something worth knowing. What's so different about a fraction of a second then versus now? I'm not really sure why exactly you're upset about this. Something about it has obviously upset you, but why? Scientific models of how the universe and physics work should be applicable to anything, so why not apply them to everything and see what it predicts? That's how we figure things out. There's a ton of evidence to support what we think happened in those fractions of a second, and they actually do make predictions we can test - and we don't know what they are until we check.

    Source(s): astrophysicist
  • ?
    Lv 6
    9 years ago

    "Oh hell, why not go all out and say 10^-86 seconds? Forget Planck time, quarks, speed of light, and quantum mechanics & nuclear physics in general."

    Thing is, cosmologists never mention 10^-86 seconds after the Big Bang. In fact the farthest back we go is to 10^-35 seconds which is Planck time when the universe would have been trillions of degrees Fahrenheit based on the assumption that all matter in the universe was once compact. Cosmologists don't say that they know that the universe was compressed with certainty, that is why there are varying theories on how it happened, but the time scale fits the generally accepted model.

    Also, we don't have to directly prove that mathematics match reality, we can justify this purely in our everyday experience and we don't need empirical evidence to solve a problem like this, that's like saying you need empirical evidence to solve a crime when all that you need to do is follow the clues.

  • ?
    Lv 4
    9 years ago

    What you need to do is actually learn about something before criticizing it.

    "Can you test whether they match reality? No."

    You don't seem to understand falsifiability. It doesn't mean being able to go back in time to test it - if that were the case, then the big bang theory isn't a scientific theory either. We can make observations NOW that either agree or disagree with a model. That's where a theory can be falsified.

    It also doesn't mean we must recreate something experimentally. Again, see the big bang theory - the cosmic background radiation isn't something we can reproduce - but it is observation that can be used to falsify a theory.

    "This means cosmologists can claim damn near anything they want. I mean, who's going to prove them wrong? Nobody,"

    Other cosmologists are the ones capable of debate. Of course, you can't see that because you don't know what you're talking about.

    Shut up, learn some science before you open your mouth. Otherwise you look like the fool that you are now.

  • ?
    Lv 4
    9 years ago

    Hey this has nothin to do with this question. You just answered mine about that guy I hate. I'm not spoiled or a beeyatch. Or nasty. I seriously am not in that group of people. And that kid has already driven me insane. So yeah just saying without giving you points.

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  • 9 years ago

    Carl Sagan would probably be flummoxed by the magnitude of the straw man you just perpetrated. He would certainly recognize the false premise of your question.

  • Anonymous
    9 years ago

    So what's your point. Do we just stop searching for answers and say God made it all? That may be your idea of scientific advance, but it ain't mine.

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