Doesn't this shed a little light on the faith vs works arguement?

It sheds a lot of light on it. As the saying goes, action speaks louder than words. So, as Jesus says, if u say u love the Lord, but hate ur brother, u are a hypocrite; and so ur heart is far from me. Jesus always talks in terms of the heart, when he talks about a person's cleanliness, and kindness, and works and such. Because if u truly want to do something from within, ur external hands/legs, will work for it. But if someone pushes u, u'll b half hearted, because internally, u only want to please that person.

Very helpful insights & scripture here. I think we can add the

scripture here that says 'having a FORM of godliness but DENYING

the power thereof'.

My experience with works has been that they are WORK. And like

all work, I haven't found them much fun, actually. They have been

'down and dirty', dealing with evil spirits, spells, curses, and

often having the person dislike me for a while, then they

'see the light', and it's great. But in between, I've found it

more of a trial.

So we have to have faith in order to have works, or else it

just won't work anyway. How can I hope to do those things

that go completely against who I am without the faith

that it is a) right to do b) useful to do it??

Always, though once I DO those things, then I am enlightened,

enhanced, and move up a notch. But before??? During??

No, it's been 'work' for me. Never fun, never enjoyable.

It's been more like what it said about Jesus 'for the JOY

that lay AHEAD', He ENDURED....

It's an endurance contest. And must have faith to even

allow the person to go through it.

Yes, great scripture. A person with true faith would be moved to show good works. It's true that we can't earn salvation, however the bible is clear. James 2: 26 Indeed, as the body without spirit is dead, so also faith without works is dead. Here is a wonderful article that I really think you will enjoy.

What Must We Do to Be SAVED?

http://www.watchtower.org/e/19960201/article_02.ht...

Yes Brother, I know where your head is now....I look around and see so many claims of those who pay lip service to fellow Brothers and Sisters about their faith and the first time they suffer for a time or when they should be running as fast as they can under God's wings of his Word....

The faith vs works debate is primarily discussed by those whom regard Sola Scriptura as valid, and thus relegated to the rabid fanatics of Christian society: Protestants.

It is of no theological importance to those who understand the allegorical, historical, moral, and spiritual meanings of Scripture. You cannot buy your way into heaven through either means.

Nope. Experientially, you'll find that those who believe works are required for salvation live more carnal life-styles than those who believe the scriptures contextually.

Next, you'll find those same people have no idea how to interpret scripture within the context in which it appears.

Read "One Bood Rightly Divided" by Douglas Stauffer.

yes...it sure does ed...honestly also, i think some of the reason that my works arent as see-ably forthcoming is because i focus on the things i shouldnt do a bit more than on the things i should and can do. its a life long process and as usual your inputs to this forum do good things.......................'m'

these are probably sunday christians, and when they see someone in need they turn the other way. believng as long as they are in church or at mass on sunday the Lord God looks on them with favour.

Yes, because they would rather follow the traditions of man.

Very good point! You can have faith but it counts for nothing if you don't have love. Words mean nothing if you don't back them up with ACTION and bear good fruit.

Simply believing is not enough if you go around intentionally sinning. Those who have faith and believe in the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, and our saviour Jesus, their faith would be demonstrated by the keeping of the commandments and teachings of Jesus naturally which would produce good fruit. They would not go around deliberately sinning.

Works can demonstrate our faith and certain works are required in order to receive salvation. The big one I am thinking of here is full water baptism without which we can not enter God's kingdom. Jesus says so himself. Repentence and Full Water Baptism by complete immersion, and being born again are essential requirements to receive God's free gift through the sacrifice of his son our saviour Jesus.

We are saved by GRACE through FAITH (Ephesians 2:8), but the process is not unconditional. There are certain things we must do.

Suppose a friend telephoned you and said, “I have a gift for you. I’d like to give it to you today but you must come to my house to pick it up.”

Is your friend offering you a free gift? Yes! Did you earn this gift? No! Will going to your friend’s house mean that you have earned this gift? No! It is still a gift. But you must take certain steps in order to receive this gift. If you refuse to take those steps, you will receive nothing.

Receiving God’s free gift of eternal life involves the same principle. You have not earned it, but you must do what the Bible instructs if you are desirous of receiving it.

Notice the instructions Peter gave to thousands of people who asked what they should do in order to receive eternal life. His first directive was to “REPENT.” His second was to “. . . be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit” (Acts 2:38).

Peter never once said, “Just sit there and whisper to yourself. ‘Jesus, I accept you into my heart.’ ” No! Peter taught that receiving salvation required ACTION on the part of those wanting it. How could it be plainer? Repentance and baptism are essential requirements for salvation.

Many people today have been deceived into thinking that they have been saved. “How could this be?” you may ask. “Isn’t the important thing that we worship Jesus Christ? Does it really matter how we worship Him?” Yes it does! Jesus said that the time would come when people would worship Him in a wrong manner! He said, “In vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men” (Mark 7:6-9).

How many of today's believers behave in a way they know is sinful and yet they go ahead and do what they feel like doing, anyway? That's because they mistakenly think Divine grace covers intentional sin. That is a huge misconception! Divine grace has made wonderful provision for unintentional sin. But there is no provision for intentional sin. The Bible tells us so. Jesus the Word made flesh says so.

Deliberate, premeditated sin is wilful disobedience and rebellion against God. It results in severe punishment or even loss of our salvation.

Mark 7:7-9 shows that many even go so far as to worship Christ, and all in vain because they do not obey God’s commandments especially the Sabbath but follow the traditions of men by which Satan has deceived the whole world.

Jesus said:

'So because you are lukewarm, and neither hot nor cold, I will spit you out of My mouth.’ Revelation 3

Jesus says in no uncertain terms that he will spit us out of his mouth if we are not fully committed.

Jesus loves us, but no sin is acceptable to Him, no matter how great or small. Like a loving parent, He will allow us to learn from our mistakes and forgive, but there comes a time when He will "draw the line" if we continue to rebel.

The grace of G-d is not a license to sin.

"I tell you the truth, anyone who has faith in me will do what I have been doing." John 14:12

"If you love me, you will obey what I command." John 14:14

Jesus kept all the commandments of G-d including the Sabbath, all the Feasts and dietary laws.

"If you obey my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have obeyed my Father's commands and remain in his love." John 15:10

"Whoever has my commands and obeys them, he is the one who loves me." John 14:21

It is incredibly dangerous for someone to believe they are saved simply by believing in Jesus but not ACTING on their faith and producing good fruit. Someone who believes he already has eternal life by simply believing in Jesus is falling for the original lie of Satan to Adam and Eve. Faith is highly important but it requires ACTION we know this because the bible says so and our saviour and his apostles say so in black and white.

You can have faith but it counts for nothing if you don't have love.