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By saying “ I AM” is Jesus saying that he is he is the God of the Bible?
I have listened to the argument about Jesus saying “ I AM” at John 8:58 and would really like to know how people are saying that this makes him God? Can you answer? (read first to save your time)
Please read carefully before you answer, and please keep to the topic without running of at a tangent and throwing other scriptures in there that are not related to the question.
Jesus said at John 8:58 in answer to a question about his age, “Jesus answered, "I tell you the truth, before Abraham was even born, I Am!"” or as some translations say ““I existed before Abraham was born!” The Complete Bible: An American Translation, by J. M. P. Smith and E. J. Goodspeed. So which is correct?
The way I have had it explained it that by saying he was the “I am” Jesus was indentifying himself with the God of the old testament at Exodus 3:14 where some translation say:
“God said to Moses, "I AM WHO I AM. This is what you are to say to the Israelites: 'I AM has sent me to you.'"
But is this the correct translation for Exodus 3:14 ?
The Greek Septuagint is a Greek translation of the old testament and was around in Jesus’ day!
The Greek Septuagint is from around 200BC and gives us the Greek for Ex 3:14.So we can see that the Greek sepuagint renders this verse " And God spoke to Moses, saying, I am THE BEING; and he said, Thus shall ye say to the children of Israel, THE BEING has sent me to you." see it for your self at: http://www.ecmarsh.com/lxx/Exodus/index.htm OK so English translators decided to use " I am" instead of "THE BEING" and then tie it in with what Jesus said at Jo 8:58. Does this make it right. Lets look at the Greek at Ex 3:14 & John 8:58
The original Greek word for “I AM” in John 8:58 is ‘‘egw eimi’. You can refer this to any of the Greek NT such as The New Testament in the Original from any interlinear Greek/English translation.
Exodus 3:14 (Greek septuagint) here we see, the Greek words (egoo eimi ho oon) which means “I AM THE BEING”, or, “I AM THE EXISTING ONE”.
So in the Septuagint the Greek is "egoo eimi ho oon" the Greek “ego eimi” (I am) and the "ho" is the definate article "THE", "oon" meaning "BEING" so translating "I am the being", and the last part of Ex 3:14 is just "ho oon" translating "the being" the following link shows the correct translation: http://www.ecmarsh.com/lxx/Exodus/index.htm
Plus, it is not the "I Am"( egoo eimi) that God identifies himself to Israel, but as " The being "(ho oon) "that does. If you look at the last part of Ex 3:14 it says, “the being” (ho oon) sent me to you, “ego eimi” (I am) is NOT used in the last part of Ex 3:14.
OK so what about Hebrew, the language that it was written in:
In Hebrew it is "ehyeh asher ehyeh" and literally means “I will be what I will be”
The word Ehyeh is used a total of 43 places in the Hebrew Bible, where it is usually translated as "I will be"
Most English Bibles make a false theological distinction by translating the same word EHYEH as "I Am" at Exodus 3:14, after translating EHYEH as "I will be" just two verses prior to that, at Exodus 3:12. (look it up and you will see that “ehyeh” is translated as “I will be” in your bible, here it is “Vs 12 God answered, "I will be with you”
Now look up the other scriptures which use ehyeh and see how they are translated:
Genesis 26:3 (Jehovah: "I will be with you"
Genesis 31:3 (Jehovah: "I will be with you"
Exodus 3:12 (Jehovah: I will be with you"
Exodus 4:12 (Jehovah: "I will be with your mouth"
Exodus 4:15 (Jehovah: "I will be with your mouth"
Deuteronomy 32:23 (Moses: "I will be with you"
I am totally amazed at how in spite of all of the above some translators choose to translate "ehyeh asher ehyeh" as "I am what I am" can you explain why? It looks like an attempt by the translators to try and tie in Ex 3:14 with Jesus. If the term means "I will be" then translated it should read at Ex3:14 "I will be what I will be" which is similar to how the NWT renders it.
The very early Christian translators Theodotion and Aquila (ca. 140 A.D.) both translated this passage from the OT Hebrew ("and God spoke to Moses, saying, ehyeh asher ehyeh") as esomai hos esomai (Greek for "I will be who I will be"). – Found in Origen's Hexapla.
So the question is why change the translation of Ex 3:14 and make it say “I am what I am” in order to make it fit with John 8:58, when the original did not say that at Ex 3:14 ?
Who is going to take sides with the TRUTH? as this is something that is expected of us, that we teach the truth as God cannot accept what is false!
@ Lone dissenter..... Good point. Also consider this:
Is Paul a part of the Trinity ? 1 corintians 15:10 Paul says: "But by the grace of God I am what I am", this is closer to Ex 3:14 that what Jesus said, does this make Part of the trinity also !!
19 Answers
- 9 years agoFavorite Answer
The action expressed in Joh 8:58 started “before Abraham came into existence” and is still in progress. In such situation εἰμί (ei·mi′), which is the first-person singular present indicative, is properly translated by the perfect indicative. Examples of the same syntax are found in Lu 2:48; 13:7; 15:29; Joh 5:6; 14:9; 15:27; Ac 15:21; 2Co 12:19; 1Jo 3:8.
Concerning this construction, A Grammar of the Idiom of the New Testament, by G. B. Winer, seventh edition, Andover, 1897, p. 267, says: “Sometimes the Present includes also a past tense (Mdv. 108), viz. when the verb expresses a state which commenced at an earlier period but still continues,—a state in its duration; as, Jno. xv. 27 ἀπʼ ἀρχῆς μετʼ ἐμοῦ ἐστέ [apʼ ar·khes′ metʼ e·mou′ e·ste′], viii. 58 πρὶν ᾿Αβραὰμ γενέσθαι ἐγὼ εἰμι [prin A·bra·am′ ge·ne′sthai e·go′ ei·mi].”
Likewise, A Grammar of New Testament Greek, by J. H. Moulton, Vol. III, by Nigel Turner, Edinburgh, 1963, p. 62, says: “The Present which indicates the continuance of an action during the past and up to the moment of speaking is virtually the same as Perfective, the only difference being that the action is conceived as still in progress . . . It is frequent in the N[ew] T[estament]: Lk 248 137 . . . 1529 . . . Jn 56 858 . . . ”
Attempting to identify Jesus with Jehovah, some say that ἐγὼ εἰμί (e·go′ ei·mi′) is the equivalent of the Hebrew expression ʼani′ huʼ, “I am he,” which is used by God. However, it is to be noted that this Hebrew expression is also used by man.—See 1Ch 21:17 ftn.
Further attempting to identify Jesus with Jehovah, some try to use Ex 3:14 (LXX) which reads: ᾿Εγώ εἰμι ὁ ὤν (E·go′ ei·mi ho on), which means “I am The Being,” or, “I am The Existing One.” This attempt cannot be sustained because the expression in Ex 3:14 is different from the expression in Joh 8:58. (See Ex 3:14 ftn.) Throughout the Christian Greek Scriptures it is not possible to make an identification of Jesus with Jehovah as being the same person.—See 1Pe 2:3 ftn; App 6A, 6E.
To add to my answer read John 8"48-58 NIV
48 The Jews answered him, “Aren’t we right in saying that you are a Samaritan and demon-possessed?”
49 “I am not possessed by a demon,” said Jesus, “but I honor my Father and you dishonor me. 50 I am not seeking glory for myself; but there is one who seeks it, and he is the judge. 51 Very truly I tell you, whoever obeys my word will never see death.”
52 At this they exclaimed, “Now we know that you are demon-possessed! Abraham died and so did the prophets, yet you say that whoever obeys your word will never taste death. 53 Are you greater than our father Abraham? He died, and so did the prophets. Who do you think you are?”
54 Jesus replied, “If I glorify myself, my glory means nothing. My Father, whom you claim as your God, is the one who glorifies me. 55 Though you do not know him, I know him. If I said I did not, I would be a liar like you, but I do know him and obey his word. 56 Your father Abraham rejoiced at the thought of seeing my day; he saw it and was glad.”
57 “You are not yet fifty years old,” they said to him, “and you have seen Abraham!”
58 “Very truly I tell you,” Jesus answered, “before Abraham was born, I am!” 59 At this, they picked up stones to stone him, but Jesus hid himself, slipping away from the temple grounds.
In context Jesus was saying he existed before Abraham which ties in with Col 1:15 which states Jesus was Gods first creation so clearly Jesus was created before Abraham.
I note also Jesus was talking about gloryifing his Father , not himself which shows they are not the same being.
I Am--- holds no weight in the trinity arguement.
- Yorkshire LassLv 67 years ago
There is a place for in -depth scholarship, but there are many that are not helped by it. It can in fact be a serious hindrance for we are trying to understand language as it WAS thousands of years ago - there is much scope for error.
But the Holy Spirit is available to the humble Christian who truly wants the Truth.
One day the Holy Spirit acted like a sudden flash of light in my mind/spirit to let me 'see' that Jesus was indeed God but restricted and limited in a man's body, hence he came for a time as a Son, inferior to his Father - but, now Jesus is glorified! Fully grown up! in heaven - and ALL Power and authority is given to him! Why?
Now, Jehovah God is NOT going to hand all the spiritual keys to another! This makes NO SENSE by logic, at all! Therefore Jesus is Divine and part of the plurality of the complex Godhead. We cannot simplify God to suit our restricted human reasoning.
- 6 years ago
If you read John 1:1 you will understand that Jesus is/was God in the flesh or at least an aspect of God, not the Father himself, but the Word of God. God created the universe by speaking it into existence with his Word (Jesus). The only entity more powerful than the Word of God is God (the Father) himself!
- 7 years ago
Jesus was always around from the beginning to the end. He IS God in human form. It's difficult to understand that jesus is God but also a separate person. In Genesis when God is creating Adam he says let US make him in OUR image. Here he is most likely talking to jesus.
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- NoNameLv 69 years ago
The argument for using "I am" is one of the weakest by trinitarians. Simply reading what Jesus said is confirmed in scripture. Rev 3:12 says Jesus was the beginning of God's creation. So he was with Jehovah as a master worker before the earth. All Jesus was saying was he was living before Abraham. People who wish to use this to say he's God shows lack of accurate bible knowledge.
- ?Lv 69 years ago
Yes, he said, "Before Abraham was, I am." The grammar change up is deliberate on Jesus' part. Normal grammar would have been, "before Abraham was, I was."
In Koine (the language the NT was written in) Jesus said, "Ego eimi." In the Koine version of the Old Testament (the LXX) the exact same construction is used by God.
We know He claimed to be God here because the Bible said the Jews sought to stone Him for this. There were only a few sins under the Law of Moses that warranted stoning and the only one He did at that time was blasphemy.
- Isa ibn YahyaLv 49 years ago
Peace be unto you. Thank you for presenting your research it is very informative. When someone has established a firm belief in what they consider to be the truth it is hard for them to accept that it is not true. However we should not let our emotions get in the way in our search for truth. I do not know whether or not you claim any religion but I can see that you are someone who is in search for the truth about God. If you are then please hear out what I have to say before you reject me as mad.
The truth is that all the scriptures are altered and it is something that God knew was going to happen and we are told about it by way of parable.
Matt 13:24-30–24) Another parable He put forth to them, saying: "The kingdom of heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field; 25) but while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat and went his way. 26) But when the grain had sprouted and produced a crop, then the tares also appeared. 27) So the servants of the owner came and said to him, `Sir, did you not sow good seed in your field? How then does it have tares?' 28) He said to them, `An enemy has done this.' The servants said to him, `Do you want us then to go and gather them up?' 29) But he said, `No, lest while you gather up the tares you also uproot the wheat with them. 30) Let both grow together until the harvest, and at the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, "First gather together the tares and bind them in bundles to burn them, but gather the wheat into my barn."
The owner of the field is Allah (God). The servants of the field are Allah's messengers, the prophets, who all put forth good seed or truthful words. Our enemy, the devil, put the tares in the field, or the false words of the scribes. Now is the time of harvest when the wheat or good words are separated from the tares and then put together to form the Book, The Sacred Treasury.
Every word of the Book comes from all the other books that contain actual revelation. Whether it be the Torah, the Bible, the Qur'an, Book of Mormon, Dead Sea Scrolls, Nag Hamadi Library, Rig Vedas, Buddha Text, Gnostic Gospels, and many more. Many of these books have the true words of Allah that He spoke through His prophets but they are mixed in with the words of man. Allah knew all this was going happen and it is His Messiah or Christ which both mean Anointed or Chosen One's duty, to recognize these words, by the power of Allah and bring them together so that we may all see the Truth.
Because of the tares that were placed in the field, or the false words that were placed in the scriptures, we are completely unaware that there is a Holy Prophet sent to us in this day and that he is the Messiah!
The Devil has been successful in deceiving mankind and has led us far astray. He has caused both Muslims and Christians to believe Jesus (pbuh) to be the Messiah in the hopes that they will not recognize the true Messiah when he comes. Not only have the scribes given this prophet's title to another, but they have also written him off as dead for that same purpose- to make sure that we are not looking for him and do not accept him when he comes.
That man is none other than the prophet John (pbuh) whom we all believe to have come and gone in the person of John the Baptist. The scribes claim he was beheaded, but he is the Head of Prophecy! Let us look to the scriptures:
Matt 11:13
For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John.
Luke 16:16
The law and the prophets were until John. Since that time the kingdom of God has been preached, and everyone is pressing into it.
Here John is set as a distinct barrier, but the words are changed to past tense so we think that the time has already come and gone so that we do not look forward to it. But indeed John is here today and is the True Messiah and the Mahdi who shall restore religion to it's original form, void of man's manipulations.
I have further explained this and provided more evidence from the scripture as well as a few excerpts from the 'Sacred Treasury' here: http://isaibnyahya.blogspot.com/2011/08/mahdi-and-...
Peace be unto you and the mercy and blessings of Allah. May He guide us all to the 'Straight Path.'
Source(s): There is no God except Allah. [2:62] Surely, those who believe (in the Qur'an), and those who follow the Jewish (scriptures), and the Christians and the Sabians,- any who believe in Allah and the Last Day, and work righteousness, shall have their reward with their Lord; on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve. [7:35] O ye Children of Adam! whenever there come to you apostles from amongst you, rehearsing My signs unto you,- those who are righteous and mend (their lives),- on them shall be no fear nor shall they grieve. - TammyLv 76 years ago
Well, why do some people make this so hard.
"I'll tell you the truth, before Abraham was Abraham, God was alive." Simple, to the point.
- jimspace3000Lv 59 years ago
The answers from Trinitarians you are receiving here and also from my related question (http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index;_ylt=AsjWB... ) show a high level of intellectual absenteeism enabling the preposterous fraud of Trinitarianism to go unchecked.
Mormons have a similar level of intellectual absenteeism as well, with similar results.[*]
Source(s): [*] http://www.parkromney.com/?view=faq&Query=Q10017 - jeshurunLv 69 years ago
I'm only going to answer the small part of your question.
No, Jesus was not saying he is actually Jehovah, the God of the Bible. and the almighty.
Jesus really said, in modern English, I was before Abraham existed.