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In the case of the soul, why is it difficult to conceive that the immaterial could affect the material?

This seems to be the stumbling block for some in believing in a soul. However, I submit that information, itself, apart from the medium carrying it, is an example of immaterial affecting the material.

Update:

@Narathzul But lets take the instance of a floppy disk. Does it weigh anything different when it is storing information as opposed to being empty? It does not, although information has been added. The atoms are organized a different way resulting from a magnetic charge and this is material, admittedly, but new organization is not new material and is done by immaterial information.

Update 2:

@Sirius, are you telling me you are immaterial?

Update 3:

@Sirius, are you telling me you are immaterial?

Update 4:

As far as I can tell, the only thing your argument proves is that we need a physical medium to receive information from a foreign source. You are correct in that in every instance that we receive information it is through matter, but the matter is always the medium, not the information itself. Think of it this way. The principle of mathematics is abstract even though matter obviously submits to it. If I want to teach a child how to add, I might organize ink on to a sheet of paper to create "1+1=2". The abstract principle was already there but I represented it on a medium. Assuming the child already has learned his numbers and understands arithmetic symbols, I can actually give him new knowledge of an abstract principle by organizing ink in such a way on paper to read "12*12=144". The principle that 12*12=144 is not material. It is abstract but I have represented it with the medium of ink and paper.

Update 5:

However, I can take this abstract principle, convey it by a physical medium and arrange someone's physical brain circuitry to understand it and write it down correctly on his mathematics test.

6 Answers

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  • 9 years ago
    Favorite Answer

    But some kind of immaterial entity called 'information' doesn't affect us, as far as we can tell it's all physical.

    Your physical brain does physical processes, gives neural commands to your throat muscles, which cause sound-waves, which are picked by physical receptors in the other person's senses, which is then physically transmitted to the brain, which physically processes it.

    And the stumbling block in believing in a soul isn't that we can't imagine it, it's that there's no reason to believe it actually exists. In fact there are strong arguments against its existence which I could list here.

    Edit: The organization on a floppy disk is very much material. I really don't see how you could argue otherwise. The information resides in the structure of the disk and the reader that reads it, that the organization is material doesn't mean we should expect extra matter to have been added into there when the information resides in the way the physical structure is organized. None of this supports the idea that the immaterial can affect the material.

  • 9 years ago

    I agree that any number of concepts which have no physical form have real world effects but I would submit to you the possibility that it is merely our belief of a soul which has any effect not the actual existence of the thing. Just as with things like democracy or 'the system' it requires a belief in the immaterial to have any effect and thus in relation to this argument I put forth that the soul is attached to the human condition of religion and thus if you are going to discard the belief in God for logical reasons then you can just as easily discard the belief in a soul because they are often linked theologically.

  • 9 years ago

    That would suggest the soul is information. Most people who believe in the soul think of it as of a substance which is essentially the same kind of substance as physical matter rather than having a more abstract nature.

  • ?
    Lv 7
    9 years ago

    And I submit to you, that my family, surroundings and certain situations * material * has molded me. This would be the material producing the immaterial

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  • 9 years ago

    There is no 'soul' that you 'have'. This is all a part of a complex control plot. You don't HAVE a soul you ARE a soul.

  • Anonymous
    9 years ago

    You have no evidence for it. Everything that has no evidence is impossible to believe.

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