To all the theists who ask atheists how they think the universe began?

If only all the atheists believed the same thing. You may not have been around R&S long enough to see how stupid some of the people who post here are. You can't say "evolution has been proven" unless you give a definition of "evolution" at the least (and "proven" would be a good thing to define as well...) but I see stuff like that all the time--from people claiming they have truth on their side. Clearly they are making a statement of the faith they have in what someone told them is contained in a book somewhere, but feel that because they had faith in a "scientist" rather than a "preacher" that their uninformed faith-based opinion should hold more weight.

The few thinking Christians and atheists on this board are easy to identify--they don't get a lot of thumbs up. Thumbs up are for the cheerleaders who have nothing more to say than "Go team".

And OP-Scw obviously you don't understand logic or even your own religion. You have said "atheists", not "agnostics", therefore making a statement about the existence of God. The burden of proof is on you as much as it is on theists. If you wanted to admit that you don't know, then you would not be an atheist. You need to back up your faith-based statements the same as anyone else--you don't get to re-invent the rules of logic or the definition of atheist.

Here is the definition of atheist: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/atheist?s=t

And I know more about evolution than you do, especially if you claim it has been proven "to the highest degree of certainty". NOTHING in biology is held to the standards of certainty that anything I can think of in physics is held to. Biologists accept that they are still learning about life on earth--while you think you know everything about it? Since you claim to know everything--prove it--the burden is on you.

Oh yeah, you don't know what gnostic and agnostic mean either, so please direct me to your holy book that defines them better:

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/gnostic?s=t

Sorry to burst your bubble of non-reality, but an intelligent designer adequately explains the organized complexity seen in the universe. If you are not willing to place up at least a competing theory for evaluation and criticism, then you have no right whatsoever to make any negative claim about theism in general.

All you are is a food critic that can't cook. Simply saying we don't know takes away all ability to critique the belief in God.

The fact that you don't get this, either indicates dishonesty on your part or a lack of basic reasoning skills.

Perhaps it may indicate that you do know an alternative theory called multiverse or omniverse. You are also aware that when you ask for your very very specific type of evidence, that it becomes absolutely absurd given multiverse and omniverse. How much evidence do you have for even one other universe? Zero zip nada??? In fact for these other universes you do not even have non-verifable experiences. You want to criticize faith, yet your only alternative theory requires more faith. You want to talk about Christians believing in ONE "imaginary God" yet seem to ignore that your only other valid theory has these magical universes where our laws of nature do not necessarily apply.

You know very well it becomes difficult to talk of the absurdity of religion with your current alternatives, which is why you avoid the question.

Further, if you want to go to the tried and true "the universe does not need a source or a cause" then you are stating that something came from nothing. Absurdity again.

Now I personally do not care what you believe. I just get sick and tired of atheists calling my beliefs delusional and stupid when they are too chicken to even place their beliefs up for critique. Stop acting like intellectual cowards.

Edit:

You see what I mean? In a debate both sides have the burden of proof, not one. The cowardice involved in deciding you are going to debate someone but:

You get to be the prosecution attacking everyone of their beliefs

You get to be the judge determining what evidence can be accepted and what can not

You get to be jury determining who wins the debate.

Reality is THERE IS NO BURDEN OF PROOF. If you are using the legal definition of proof, then we have no judge or jury. If you are using the scientific definition, then nothing can be proven. Stop acting like intellectual cowards.

And knowing the answer and believing an answer are two different things, which you do not seem to understand. I think aspirin will help take away my next headache, but I cannot know. I think if I do good things, good things will happen to me, but I cannot know. I don't know there is a god, but I believe there is.

Edit:

Wow talk about dishonesty. YOU CANNOT PROVE ANYTHING IN SCIENCE. SETI looks for INTELLIGENT LIFE based off of organized complexity in signals. WHY? Because intelligence can produce organized and complex patterns, where chaos does not.

Edit:

No I would let you believe whatever you want to believe. If I wanted to help you see that you do not I would ask the size of this dragon. Obtain a net with smaller holes then the size of your dragon and prove no dragon is there. Should be able to cover the area of the garage rather quickly.

You are talking about how the universe started, our meaning and purpose in life, our reason for being here. You expect people to just say who cares? They choose a beliefs based upon their experiences in life as do you. I have met people who have had NDEs. You want to tell them they are wrong based upon your knowledge. What knowledge is this?

Believe whatever you like. Ask for evidence if someone wants you to change your mind. Provide evidence if you want to change their mind. Simple logic.

Edit:

Sorry I have no idea what highest degree of certainty for evolution even means. If you mean you have a lot of supporting evidence, then we do. Then talk about evidence, not proof. And by the definition of evidence, there is evidence for God, just not enough for you to find compelling to believe. Others decide things differently. They take the beliefs available and pick the one that they have seen the most evidence. For many this is God.

My own thinking is that you can't prove either that God exists or that he doesn't exist. So people on both sides can challenge the other side by asking for PROOF. And the walk away thinking they've won the argument because the opposite position has no proof.

If God does exist, and if he's anything like people seem to want to believe, then it seems clear that he set it up this way on purpose!

Honestly, However you believe the Universe began, there isn't tangible proof, so either way you will have to put your faith in something. it just depends on what or who you put your faith in.

facts don't matter to theists ...

And your question is...?