How do you explain these scriptures?

In the bible sleep is used as a METAPHOR for death because in both you are inactive and normally unconscious.

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There is certainly a mystery there because there are also teachings indicating the spirit leaving the body on death. Eg Jairus daughter's spirit returning when Jesus healed her, or Jesus giving up his spirit when he died, or Paul saying in Philippians about wanting to leave the flesh to be with Christ. But thinking it better to remain in the flesh to help the believers. Then of course you have passages like Hebrews 12 talking about believers coming to the heavenly Jerusalem and 'the spirits of men made perfect'. I think there may be a certain element in which "souls sleeping" is the older concept, and it is true that some will indeed be raised in bodily form on Earth when Christ returns. There are complexities that would require a study of all these texts to understand.

I would say that "sleep" in the case of these scriptures, is an euphemism and refers to the apparent state of the dead from the point of view of the living. PERHAPS these passages are meant to be taken literally, but I very much doubt it. Even if the passages are NOT meant to be taken literally, it is still possible that people may "sleep" until the resurrection, but I don't think we can put forth these passages as biblical proof of that. In any case, sleep is not the same as non-existence, which many (I don't know about you personally) soul-sleep proponents also insist on. It's possible, if you were to show me some arguments I haven't yet seen, that I might be persuaded of soul sleep, but I have seen a lot of arguments for this and haven't found them (for me) conclusive. I believe this is just one of those many things that we do not know.

There are different camps of thought about the state of death, because the scriptures don't spend much time focusing on it FOR A REASON.

Our focus should be on Jesus. The farther away you get from the person of Jesus the foggier things get. History gets foggier the farther back you go, heaven and hell are misty places too.

My personal thoughts on it is that there are some at rest, and some have risen, because our God is not the God of the dead, but the living. Either way, I choose to not worry about it, because the message is clear: I shouldn't.

You use the word sleep and mean something along the lines of "in a state of unconsciousness" for the entire person. These verses are simply talking about the fact that the body is now inanimate. When you read them alongside verses that speak about the state of the soul after death, you will see that the Bible claims that at death, the body dies and the soul lives on in an eternal state.

Just posting a few scriptures here for your perusal and not wishing to

think differently, but expand our thinking if this works OK.

I know about the sleep and it's true, it's there, but I think there's more to it.

Now look at Paul had to say: (Philippians 1:21-26 NIV) For to me, to live is Christ and to die is gain. {22} If I am to go on living in the body, this will mean fruitful labor for me. Yet what shall I choose? I do not know! {23} I am torn between the two: I desire to depart and be with Christ, which is better by far; {24} but it is more necessary for you that I remain in the body. {25} Convinced of this, I know that I will remain, and I will continue with all of you for your progress and joy in the faith, {26} so that through my being with you again your joy in Christ Jesus will overflow on account of me.

Paul says he would rather die so....

so he could sleep??? So he would wait for the resurrection???

Then we look at the Mount of Transfiguration:

(Matthew 17:1-3 NIV) After six days Jesus took with him Peter, James and John the brother of James, and led them up a high mountain by themselves. {2} There he was transfigured before them. His face shone like the sun, and his clothes became as white as the light. {3} Just then there appeared before them Moses and Elijah, talking with Jesus.

We recall that Moses DID die, and was buried. And now here he is.

He is not sleeping, is he.

(but that IS the OT and that MAY be different than for the bride, the church, OK?)

Going back to paradise and its being separated from torment, I (ALSO)believe when Jesus died he descended into paradise (where He would have been with the thief that day). I believe that while in paradise He proclaimed His victory over death. Until His death and resurrection people who died with their faith in God still were captives of death. But I believe that Jesus set them free and took paradise to heaven with him. Look at this passage: (Ephesians 4:7-8 NIV) But to each one of us grace has been given as Christ apportioned it. {8} This is why it says: "When he ascended on high, he led captives in his train and gave gifts to men."

One of the very best explanations did come from 'Gregory' and thanks to him, (I've

e-mailed him to thank him), and you likely have seen him on Yahoo?

Here is what he said, and so very well:

when we die our soul goes to heaven

2Co 5:6 Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:

2Co 5:8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

1Th 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.

1Th 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

When Jesus comes back to get his people alive on the earth Jesus comes back with the souls of those who went to heaven after death.

The sleep here means they are not dead for ever but their body is asleep in the grave. The soul went to heaven with God and comes back with him at the rapture when are physical bodies are resurrected into eternal bodies for our soul.

(now I'm writing here)...Theos is very complex, ...capable(!!), and can separate

all the parts, the soul, the spirit, so the only difference I would make is it is

the NEW Spirit that is of God that returns to God, not the soul. And all

those SPIRITS come as a CLOUD with Jesus when He returns.

Nice question.

we are all born into this world dead in our sins dead spiritualy seperated from the life of God, but when any one come to God through faith in Jesus we are made alive together with Christ alive spiritualy, this is what salvation is all about. if we remain dead in our sin we will be lost forever.

2FollowHim gave a good answer. To be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord.

Some guy wrote some **** down and people took him seriously.