Separation of Church and State: marriage?

Let them get married. It's not like they are going to stop boning each other even if you don't allow them to. Let them condemn themselves to Hell.

Simply put... If there WAS a separation of church and state, then it wouldn't be a problem. The fact that there isn't makes it a problem. For instance, the schools are required to teach the definition of marriage according to what the law is. The law is made either by social voting (ie, religious beliefs are a part of that...) or by judges and the like. If the law is made saying "marriage is now this" then children will be taught the new definition, and the separation of church and state will again be broken. One way or another, they will butt heads. Now, if the government called it a union, a civil union, or whatever, and did not try to force society to change the definition of marriage (see England) then they can exist and not have as many arguments about it. But since what is wanted is a changing of a term that IS used religiously, and that many people in this nation are not wanting to change, then there is a fight. Oh, and as for dolphins being gay... to the poster who mentioned it... you do realize that they bond through that sex, then basically gang rape a female, right? They use it to increase their chance of procreation, of being with a female. Not because they like the same sex more. There is no animal-comparison that works for what we see in human kind when it comes to homosexuality. At the same time, we also don't see other animals doing things like using a pencil to write out a note. Or philosophizing. Shoot, I wouldn't compare dog behavior to cat behavior... It's asinine.

No, not TWO FORMS.

What we HAVE are two kinds of ceremony. Thus, people of whatever sexual orientation can have marriages conducted by civil authorities or by church authorities (not ALL churches refuse to marry same-sex couples).

But making two KINDS of MARRIAGE is discriminatory. (I'm reminded of the scene from Buffy the Vampire Slayer, where Xander and Anya are hiding from their relatives in the bathroom, and he points out to her that a WEDDING is NOT a MARRIAGE. They aren't the same thing. The wedding is the ceremony in which two people marry; the marriage is the thing that happens after that.

You are calling for legitimizing millions of straight marriages, that began in civil weddings.

Instead of doing that, why not just let all adult couples in love marry?

No one is saying that any particular church that objects HAS to marry people -- that's long been the case, as with Catholics churches, at least in the past, not marrying previously-divorced people. That isn't changing. All the same-sex marriage legislation I've heard of (except possibly UK, I'm not sure about that) stipulate that churches that don't approve don't have to conduct the weddings.

Go find the clip of the woman who took her case to the Supreme Court over DOMA, where she explains why marriage, specifically, is "magic."

Why do you keep trying to restrict marriage to such a narrow set of people? ALL cultures have marriage, not only Judeo/Christian/Muslim ones. You are trying to redefine marriage.

And you're trying to make the many civilly-married couples no longer married.

What solves the problem is for people to get emergency cranial-rectal extraction surgery and allow all adult couples to marry if they want.

That's what most Americans want, anyway.

You SAY you don't want to legislate morality, but you DO seem to want to insist that ALL religious institutions forbid same-sex marriages. YOU are not in charge of what ALL religious institutions do.

A "Civil Union Certificate" idea has been proposed. Gays do not want that. They want a marriage in a Church as a "Man and Woman" have. The idea is to force gay marriage as "normal" on the rest of us and it never will be. Because when you change the meaning of marriage for one man, one woman. it begins a slippery slope. Polygamy, Bigamy then has to be allowed as well. And being as it should not be a Federal issue, but if it is not then this or that state would not recognized another states laws. this is the issue right now with Gay marriage. that is why they are trying to make it a Federal issue to FORCE all States to recognized their marriages even the ones that are against it. That is FORCING their agenda on the rest of us.

Marriage is instituted by God, but it is older than any identifiable religion. It is a basic human institution that solves a basic human problem: That human children mature very slowly.

The young of other animals bound up shortly after birth to forage for themselves. Not human babies. They take 15-20 years to learn the complex skills needed to function in the human economy. Lacking instinct, they need instruction of adults, and the natural adults are the pair-bond team of mother and father.

The only reason to honor marriage is to reap its benefits for men, women, and children, but especially for children. Children with married parents are wealthier, healthier, better adjusted, more law abiding, and more successful in school. The parents lavish an estimated $250,000 to raise a child to adulthood. Recent research shows that children raised by homosexuals do not reap the benefits of marriage, but only the disaster of single parenthood coupled with the terribly bad example of destructive sexuality (see link).

There is no comparable benefit to promoting homosexual relations, which spread disease and make people incapable of marriage. Further, degrading marriage either directly or by honoring "civil unions" with the privilege of adoption discourages marriage. Marriage is difficult; for example, married couples pledge sexual fidelity for life. There is no such pledge, and no reason for such a pledge, in a civil union of homosexuals, polygamists, group "marriage" participants, or incest partners.

Finally, all law legislates morality. We have laws against thievery because thievery is wrong. We have laws honoring marriage because marriage is a social and moral good. It would be the height of foolishness to honor relationships that are dangerous and destructive.

Cheers,

Bruce

here are numerous reasons why a once committed relationship would degenerate to one partner asking for a divorce. how to save your marriage https://tr.im/5SaWD

It could have been:

- an affair

- having been separated by a long distance for lengths of time

- conflict

- behavioral issues or psychological problems of one spouse

- even unmanaged addictions.

Whatever of these problems may be what is seen on the surface, the bottom line is that usually, barring any abuse or psychological problems that are best handled by a professional, a couple find themselves in danger of divorce when there is a loss of:

- communication,

- love

- and intimacy

in the marital relationship.

People have been getting "married" for thousands, possibly tens of thousands, of years.

Christianity does not own the word or the concept. Neither does any other religion.

What you are proposing is that the rest of us should cede a central aspect of society to bigots.

Not gonna happen.

I believe that as far as same-sex marriage goes, to give the Legislature the power to legalize it and not give the power to the people to vote on it.

Separation of Church and State is in violation whenever the people are given the opportunity to vote on a matter that is in conflict with religion.

God must be kept out of politics altogether.

France has a similar system in place. A couple goes through two ceremonies: one to accommodate any form of religious beliefs and another separate one for the legal aspects. That may be the solution.

I'm an atheist, support same sex marriages, and I totally agree with you about this. It would be better for everyone if the two concepts were completely separate.

I have jokingly said: "let homosexuals marry and be as miserable as the rest of us." But, whether civil and /or state, if you believe in God, then you know His laws over-rule any law man decides to enact. We cannot bring God down to our level. We don't always know what's best. In theory, your idea is okay, but it reality, with God, it's not. It isn't up to us to decide. God said: "I know that the way of man is not in himself. It is not in man that walketh to direct his steps."