A contradiction in MRA/MGTOW?

"A contradiction in MRA/MGTOW?"

Not really. MRAs seek change in society and it's public institutions. MGTOWs see the same inequities, but they opt not to participate in social expectations by refusing to engage with women. They're quite distinct from one another, even if there is a shared sense that men are harmed in contemporary Western society.

"John if it was simply MALE SOVEREIGNTY, I would be reading "men are wonderful" and not "men are wonderful, women are all rotten"

Seems like you're cherry picking. At the end of the day, the reality is that the only reason MGTOWs speak out...is because they feel like they're under attack, and need to defend themselves.

But when people are deriding them as selfish, I can understand why their rhetoric becomes blunter and more hostile. I mean, why is it such a problem and threat for people when some men say "in my opinion, women do not play a positive role in the lives of men, so I choose not to marry or engage in any meaningful relationship with women in order to preserve my life on my own terms?"

That is in effect what the MGTOWs believe...why not just leave them alone and let them go their own way? We all know that women who believed this...would not be subjected to charges of being "selfish." It amazes me...questioning a woman's right to choose whether to carry a fetus to term or not is considered misogynistic by most...but questioning a man's right to have relations with whom he chooses...that's somehow okay???

"I take Jens answer on greed but the motto of disregardful females, acquire currency, is not retain currency instead."

So by that logic, women who forego having children in their most fertile years in order to "acquire currency"...are selfish??? Why is it that a woman can be a "good woman" without being a wife and Mommy, but a man needs to provide for a wife and child in order to be considered a "good man?"

Sorry, but I don't buy your point here at al! MGTOWs are not greedy...anyone who WORKS is in a perpetual state of "acquiring currency"...your objection to MGTOWs seems to be that they refuse to put a woman in the position of spending their currency for them!

A lot of these MRA types are just angry men who want to vent their anger out online. They don't really stand for much. They just want to live life in a self centred fashion which is OK, not everyone has to start a family and get married and involve themselves with other people or even bother with them but they expect the whole world to cater to their whim and they expect to have sex with women even though they cannot bear the fact that some women morally so think that abortions are wrong and they could get someone pregnant. Seems a little egotistical if you ask me.

A type that really makes me cringe is the MRA female. Some of them seem hungry for male approval, and they make it so obvious and it's embarrassing. Many also just support the movement because it seems progressive, which is not really the right reason to stand for something.

And no, I'm not a feminist, either. If you look into it deep enough you will find that feminists are MRAs stand for some of the same things. Male and female fungibility, abortion, casual sex, gender blindness and so forth.

No, the world isn't black and white, but men and women for the most part are different and they think and act differently. Also, this war on the unborn makes me sick, quite frankly. Since when is an unborn baby not a person? It seems as though it's only a person when it suits the parents. Yes women get to make the final decision on whether their child lives or dies but many men still seem to want to push abortion as much as women do and you can see that on a voice for men. I stumbled across this website once on a link here and I was pretty disturbed by some of the anti human things I read. So many of the followers are motivated by anger and self service and nothing more.

Greed is lust for more, not wanting to keep what you earned.

Also, MRAs are not generally opposed to relationships or even necessarily marriage, and do not subscribe to the MGTOW principle that women are inherently flawed. The idea that women should be avoided is about as popular among MRA's as the idea that all conflict and violence comes from male testosterone poisoning is among feminists. Only crazy people say those things.

these beliefs are not set in stone - there is not authoritative source of MRA or MGTOW .. doctrine or dogma.

To summerize MRAs ideas - generally its simply about equality. and a strong sense that the "equality" that feminists seem to strive towards is not equality at all. Above all else they care about mens rights - their largest issues being custody and divorce laws - which are clearly unfair and not "equal" - this is where the mistrust of marriage and, I guess families and relationships, comes from. they are currently unfair to men. then laws around domestic violence and rape also are skewed towards reducing mens due process and reducing mens rights, essentially. A man should have the right to a fair trial and fair and equal treatment under the law. feminists don't believe this is the case - they strive to make things like rape and domestic violence and custody - they strive to make these special cases where normal due process (for men) does not apply.

due process removed from male students at colleges and universities -> http://online.wsj.com/article/SB100014241278873246...

http://www.elephantjournal.com/2011/05/women-lie-a...

its a common misconception that MRAs attack females in a broad sense. the most well know mens rights activist is a woman, girlwriteswhat. MRAs disagree with what the system allows women to get away with - the powers it gives women, often over men. if you let people commit crimes without consequence, many will do so - MRAs are not saying women are inherently dishonest or evil.. but the system allows or encourages them to do so.

MGTOWs are more angry and disillusioned with the system, and believe the problems go beyond feminism and unjust laws - they think feminism has laid bare some fundamental truths about how men and women relate to and view one another. They don't seem too bothered about fixing the system - they appear to want to push the system over and have it collapse. although many believe it will collapse on its own anyway. in anycase, they refuse to feed the system.

its not just as simple a bunch of misogynists sl@gging women off on-line. although it does often look like it - lol

I am married and do not share MGTOW views but I fail to see why on earth feminists would criticize them since a lot of radical feminists also do not want to have anything to do with men. They seam to complement each others desires perfectly.

Or do feminists find that it is perfectly normal for all men to crave for their love and affection while at the same time they (the feminists) will avoid any relationship with men.

By the way, do nuns and monks criticize each other for not wanting to have anything with the opposite sex?

Hardcore fans of the Kardashians and those that idolize them belong in Guantanamo to suffer. That you can't deny! Only idiots idolize talentless reality tv "stars" who endorse narcissism, causing drama, and getting as much plastic surgery done as possible!

It's true in many ways most of them seem to buy into this idea that women are amoral creatures driven by personal gain rather than love, but if you turn the eye of judgment on them it's obvious that they truly view dating and relationships as a business transaction. There's probably a sad story behind each vehement MGTOW

::plays worlds tiniest violin::

MRAs are just as greedy, deluded, selfish and wimpy as feminists are.

All of them chant the same song "Why should I get married if I don't GAIN anything out of it?" and this kind of attitude from both males & females are exactly the reason divorce rate is so high.

The concept of MGTOW is incredibly gay too and sounds like it should be an extension to 'LGBT'.