Atheists: What's the difference between saying energy is eternal, or there is an eternal immaterial God?

Energy did not exist until the Big Bang, when the Intelligent Designer caused the universe to explode from a single point at the beginning of time. There was neither time, space, matter, or energy until the Big Bang--the moment of creation.

As you explain in your question details, there is no energy without mass, and energy is a transformation of mass. In addition, energy requires time. For example, light moves at 186,000 miles a second, but a second is a measure of time. Thus, until there was time, space, and matter, there was no energy.

It is tempting to think of a universe before time, but Einstein's general theory of relativity shows that time had a beginning. When you think about it, there cannot be a time before time--that is self-contradictory.

However, what begins to exist, including the universe, must have a cause. In the case of the universe, the cause must be timeless and immaterial. This is consistent with our understanding of God.

Anticipating the rejoinder of the anti-theists asking what caused God, it is important to understand that only events in time require a cause.

Cheers,

Bruce

E = mc^2 is wrong. Well, it's an oversimplification at least. It's actually E = route((mc^2)^2+(pc)^2) where p is an object's momentum.

Now, the E = route((mc^2)^2+(pc)^2) formula only describes the amount of energy in a body of mass (as energy and mass are interchangeable), not how much energy there is in the universe compared to how much mass there is in the universe.

"So in the end, either there had to be eternally existing atomic particles (matter), or an eternally existing immaterial God." Wrong. Just wrong. Read either "a brief history of time" or "A universe from nothing". I doubt you'd understand all of it, but you might just get the gist of it.

EDIT: You do not require much evidence as another human I haven't met yet is an unextraordinary claim when there are 7,000,000,000 people out there. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, and so God requires a heck of a lot more evidence to assert his existence than you do.

How can the universe create itself out of nothingness? Given the fact that the universe began to exist, it must have had a “cause” that originated it.Doesn't it make more sense to assume the existence of a Creation.

The question is tricky because it sneaks in the false assumption that God came from somewhere and then asks where that might be. The answer is that the question does not even make sense. It is like asking, “What does blue smell like?” Blue is not in the category of things that have a smell, so the question itself is flawed. In the same way, God is not in the category of things that are created or caused. God is uncaused and uncreated—He simply exists.

We know that from nothing, nothing comes. So, if there were ever a time when there was absolutely nothing in existence, then nothing would have ever come into existence. But things do exist. Therefore, since there could never have been absolutely nothing, something had to have always been in existence. That ever-existing being is what we call God. God is the uncaused Being that caused everything else to come into existence. God is the uncreated Creator who created the universe and everything in it.

You can't see the wind, but you know it is there because you can see what the wind is doing. You can know that the wind is there because you can feel it.God is like the wind, you can't see him.

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Atheists: What's the difference between saying energy is eternal, or there is an eternal immaterial God

- Because energy is real, your fantasy isn't.

how can there be energy if there is no mass

- Apparently you haven't gone beyond 5th grade. They are different forms of the same substance.

if the energy requires atomic particles for it to exist

- You failed grades 1-4 apparently.

Is there as not as much evidence for God as there is for me

- Only in your imagination.

Just the existence of this information is circumstantial evidence that a supreme intelligence exist.

- Again, ONLY in your imagination.

Energy doesn't have consciousness. You claim your imaginary Sky Bully does.

I've never heard that claim that you say many atheists make.

Uh, there COULD be energy without mass, even though there's a matter/energy equivalency. You don't understand what E = MC^2 MEANS, apparently.

???? Who said energy requires "atomic particles for it to exist"? You have NO grasp of physics. You are confused.

There is NO credible evidence of god's existence, and the concept is incoherent and self-contradictory. Thus, it's rational to conclude god doesn't exist.

No, there is NO credible evidence of god at all. There IS credible evidence you exist. Someone typed this question. And presumably there are people who know you personally.

Yes, MY evidence of your existence is "circumstantial" -- but it's reasonable to conclude that it was some human who submitted this question.

"sent and received"?

No, there is NO evidence that stands up to rational scrutiny that an imaginary Sky Bully exists. You saying it doesn't make it TRUE. Even if you say it over and over.

All the Big Bang shows is that the observable universe was once in a condensed state - a singularity. Beyond that point the laws of physics, or our predicting capabilities, break down.

To say something caused time and space to exist in the absence of time and space makes no sense.

That fact is you are not being rational when you claim your god exists; you have 0 evidence - I don't even know what would be considered evidence because the concept makes no sense.

Just switch off your indoctrination for a minute and really think about the idea of a being that has always existed and had within it the intelligence and power to create universes against the FACT that some still unknown process created a few basic gases that reached some tipping point to cause a huge reaction that simply threw the resulting matter and energy over the known universe...

What you are implying is that energy = God. I do not think so. Energy does not have intelligence.

As for evidence of existence, I can read your text here, there is nothing of god. Oh! and before you say the Bible, it is an obvious human written and cobbled together myth kit. It has so many errors, omissions and contradictions as to show it would be a deep embarrassment for any all knowing and all present being.

Energy is a non-conscious thing. The mono-deity God idea is and based on the Bible, Quran, Torah.

Mono-theism is completely unnatural and those religions have sexism at the core plus they lessen a person's ability to use reason and give the impression that humans are not animals-it is very anti-educational.

So energy wrote the 10 commandments in stone?

Those aspects of the story I have problems with. Virgin Mary, son of God, adam & eve, etc.

Lose 99% of that and what are you left with?