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Lv 6

I have a question for Christian Apologist or Theologians regarding Christology?

Did Jesus set aside his deity when he became a human? I originally thought that Jesus, being the second person of the trinity, would always possess all the attributes of God, including omniscience and omnipotence. In further study, this does not appear to be the case.

Jesus does not appear to be omniscient.

Luke 2:52 “And Jesus increased in wisdom and stature, and in favour with God and man.”

If Jesus increased in wisdom, then he must have had less wisdom at one point than at a later point.

Jesus admits to having a lack of knowledge about a subject.

Mark 13:32 “But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.”

Being omniscient means to know all things. Clearly if you already know all things you cannot learn anything more. Therefore, since Jesus grew in wisdom, he did not know all things. If he did not know the day and the hour, he did not know all things.

Jesus does not appear to be omnipotent.

John 8:28 “Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things.”

John 5:19 “Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.”

John 5:3- “I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.”

Jesus repeatedly said that he does nothing of his own power. Even when threatened with death at the moment of his capture, he tells Peter something.

Matthew 26:53 “Thinkest thou that I cannot now pray to my Father, and he shall presently give me more than twelve legions of angels?”

Note that Jesus does not say that he can command the legions of angels directly, by his own power, but that he would have to pray to the Father in order to be given them.

When Jesus lived among us as a man, had he set aside his divine powers? When were those powers returned to him? If so, when? At his resurrection? When he was placed on his Father’s throne? Will it happen at the rapture or at his second coming?

If you can, please back up your thoughts with scriptural references.

10 Answers

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  • Hogie
    Lv 7
    8 years ago
    Favorite Answer

    Scripture identifies Jesus as the God of the old covenant incarnate. He also declared that He came to reveal the Father. If He was revealing the Father, then the Father was unknown previously.

    He "emptied" Himself of the glory He had previously, and took it back again upon His return to the Father.

    And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was. - John 17:5

    Philippians 2:5  Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:

    6  Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

    7  But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:

    8  And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

    .

  • Cattm
    Lv 5
    8 years ago

    In Luke 2;52 Jesus was a child who took off to go to his Father's house. He was found learning in the synagogue .

    In Matt 26:53 Is during the moment the roman soldiers are arresting him, one of the disciples took out a sword to defend him andJesus said to put it way and that he had all the help he needed but chose not to do anything because this is what he was born for, to die, to get us reconnected back to God.

    He didn't set aside his powers as to not having them, he chose not to use them.

    When he died on the cross God gave him the universe and everything in it to do with what he wished.

    The rapture is him coming back for people, it will only be in the blink of an eye.

    Next you will see him coming back as a warrior to give the devil his due in Megiddo {Hebrew} or Armageddon{Greek}.

    Mark 13:32 is talking about the hour Jesus comes back to take his people. No man, angel or Jesus himself knows when. Only God does.

    John 5:19 He does what the father does, he gets his power from God, he does exactly what God the Father does. God's power/ Jesus'power = the same

    John 5:3 he came here to do god's will and not his own.

    John 8:28 Ok to be honest I don't exactly know what is meant by "when ye have lifted me up" It goes on to say that after this , you will know I am the son of God and I was put on the earth to do what God wants, not what he{Jesus} wants.

    Every creation God has made , God has taught them all things including Jesus.

    I'm going to study the lifted up part and will get back to you.

    I know that lifted up, means to be praised , worshiped and adored, so I assume when after his death and resurrection, they would, the disciples, lift him up. I will study this more

    Source(s): Bible
  • Moi
    Lv 7
    8 years ago

    You likely are referencing passages like this:

    Mar 13:31 Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.

    Mar 13:32 ¶ But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.

    Jesus did not know the time simply because his Father chose not to tell him. We don't know why this is - just thats the case.

    Don't make the mistake that many do that all of God is Jesus and that Jesus is all of God. That is not biblical. God put a smaller portion of his own Spirit inside the flesh body of his Son to indwell and empower him. But God the Father was much greater than God the Son - and the Son himself says so:

    Jhn 14:28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.

  • Andres
    Lv 6
    8 years ago

    Jesus called himself the Son of man. I believe he was saying that to identify himself with man. I believe he clearly displayed this when he chose to be baptized by John the baptist when he didn't need to. The Lord although the Son of God, identified with the humanity he came to save and in doing so restrained himself from the the full atttributes that he had the right to have. At the Second coming though I believe that will no longer be the case. That's why everyone will bow before Jesus to the glory of God the Father.

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  • Kylie
    Lv 4
    8 years ago

    You could of saved yourself alot of time by reading phil 2.

    Tho study of the word is always good.

    But phil 2 says:

    5 In your relationships with one another, have the same mindset as Christ Jesus:

    6 Who, being in very nature[a] God,

    did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage;

    7 rather, he made himself nothing

    by taking the very nature[b] of a servant,

    being made in human likeness.

    8 And being found in appearance as a man,

    he humbled himself

    by becoming obedient to death—

    even death on a cross!

    9 Therefore God exalted him to the highest place

    and gave him the name that is above every name,

    10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,

    in heaven and on earth and under the earth,

    11 and every tongue acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord,

    to the glory of God the Father.

    It says tho He was God He made Himself nothing. Better translations say He emptied Himself of divine attributes such as omnipresent, omnipotence, omniscience. This doesnt mean He was not God, as He very being is God. A omnipotent God can empty Himself of His own power. Can you not control how much strength you use to pick up an egg. A human births human, a bird bird, God begets God and Jesus is the only begotten Son of God (john 3:6 and 3:16)

  • You've received some top of the line answers so far.

    Here's a little more detail for you.

    Jesus denied Himself the knowledge of the day and hour He would come for the Rapture. An ancient Jewish marriage tradition tells us what Jesus was talking about, concerning, only the Father (God the Father) knows the day and the hour when He (Jesus, God the Son) would come. The father of the Jewish groom would decide when a man had finished making preparations and to get his bride. The groom had earlier proposed and gone away to prepare a place for his bride then would come to get her.

    THE CONTRACT a very short summery of the Bible that I hope helps you to understand what God did for us:

    God is 3 personages, Jesus is God Himself; God the Son, & took on humanity, coming as a man to save us. Satan orchestrated a contract with sin with Adam in the Garden of Eden. Since that time, sin passes through man, therefore, Jesus was born of a virgin in order to save us of our sins & get us out of the contract. God worked out legal grounds, through Abraham, in order to save us & pour the sins of humanity on to Jesus on the Cross. Roughly 2000 years after Abraham was asked to kill / sacrifice his son, God sent His Son, on the same spot, to die for us. A man (Adam) put us in sin, a man (Jesus) gets us out of the contract. Legally however, you'll have to accept it, for a pardon is not valid unless you accept it. If you choose to reject God, it's not God's will but your will that will be done.

    WHO JESUS IS

    JESUS, God Himself, Jehovah, YHWH, The Creator, My Savior, Fully Deity, Fully man Romans 10:9-13 believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved. (Acts chapter 16

  • 8 years ago

    Your question I swell stated and I appreciate the Scriptural references applied.

    The answer to your question is no, Jesus did not set aside His deity while on earth. However, to apply it to the places you have pointed to requires us to understand the circumstances.

    Let us make the case first that Jesus did not set aside His Divine Identity. To do so I need to establish that Jesus was God and Man at once.

    First, there are a number of times that, while on earth, Jesus was identified or identified Himself in the present tense as God.

    John 8:58 (Jesus said to them, "Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.") is perhaps the most powerful statement of immediate Divinity. That same "I AM" statement, made in John 18:6, floored Hi opponents.

    Second, the Prophets identified the Messiah as being God Himself. The Messiah was the Christ, as you probably understand; it was the earthly role of Jesus of Nazareth. We know He was Christ while on the earth (the many confessions of such prove this), and a defining characteristic of being the Messiah was that Messiah was also God.

    Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a Child is born, Unto us a Son is given; And the government will be upon His shoulder. And His name will be called Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

    Third, the nature of the covenant change mandated that the original maker of the covenant be the one to die, in order that a New Covenant be established. Since the original maker of the Old Covenant (with Moses) was God, it necessitated that it be God who died on the cross.

    Hebrews 9:16 For where there is a testament, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.

    So enough has been said to make us conclude that while on earth, Jesus was God in the Flesh (1 Timothy 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifested in the flesh, Justified in the Spirit, Seen by angels, Preached among the Gentiles, Believed on in the world, Received up in glory.)

    Now we must then determine, as you pointed out, why these passages speak as they do.

    1. How could Jesus be omniscient and increase in wisdom? The Greek word used here is "Sophia" which can mean either higher or earthly wisdom. I.e. experience. Jesus' growth was an experience, which was necessary we are later told so that He could fulfill His destiny.

    Hebrews 4:15 For we do not have a High Priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but was in all points tempted as we are, yet without sin.

    2. How could Jesus be omniscient but not know the Day nor hour of His return? I believe that many translations do not include that statement "not even the son of Man". However, I believe it is accurate in representing what Jesus said, since His point is that His return will be when it is decided by the Father. If you recall, Jesus is constantly doing the will of the Father on earth, and has all authority from the Father. However, when the end of time comes, the Scriptures state that all things will return to the Father. Jesus is telling us it is not His decision as to when He will return, but His fathers

    1 Corinthians 15:24 Then comes the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God the Father, when He puts an end to all rule and all authority and power.

    3. How could Jesus be omnipotent but still depend on the Father? The same is true of the Holy Spirit, who submits to Jesus to come to the earth at His direction

    John 15:26 "But when the Helper comes, whom I shall send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth who proceeds from the Father, He will testify of Me.

    I believe that the answer to these passages you mention are quite simple: Jesus submitting to the Father does not make Him less than the Father.

    A study of the word "Submission" in the New Testament might be of assistance to this point. The Scriptures indicate a totality of submission that, if we attempt to create a hierarchy out of submission, we would be flummoxed.

    For example:

    1 Peter 5:5 Likewise you younger people, submit yourselves to your elders. Yes, all of you be submissive to one another,

    If submission ranks us, young people are ranked below older people. Yet then Peter said everyone submit, including older people to younger people. If submission is a hierarchy, then we have a paradox. Submission must not then mean inequality.

    Another example:

    Ephesians 5:21 submitting to one another in the fear of God. Wives, submit to your own husbands, as to the Lord.

    If submission ranks us, wives are ranked below husbands. Yet then Paul said everyone submit, including husbands to their wives. If submission is a hierarchy, then we have a paradox. Submission must not then mean inequality.

    Thank you for a chance to answer

  • 8 years ago

    The scriptures say that he emptied himself and took the form of a servant. (Phillipians 2:7)

  • 8 years ago

    When Jesus was among us in the flesh, He was fully human and fully divine.

  • ronbo
    Lv 7
    8 years ago

    in revelation jesus said all power in heaven and earth has been given to me.

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