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Why do the mormons believe they must work and pay to live with God?
Why does the LDS teach that in order to live with God in the celestial kingdom that you have to have a temple recommend, complete temple rituals, pay full tithe ect.
Jesus actually teaches something very different, he said many times that "works" will not get you anywhere...
Luke 18:9-14
The Parable of the Pharisee and the Tax Collector
9 To some who were confident of their own righteousness and looked down on everyone else, Jesus told this parable: 10 “Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. 11 The Pharisee stood by himself and prayed: ‘God, I thank you that I am not like other people—robbers, evildoers, adulterers—or even like this tax collector. 12 I fast twice a week and give a tenth of all I get.’
13 “But the tax collector stood at a distance. He would not even look up to heaven, but beat his breast and said, ‘God, have mercy on me, a sinner.’
14 “I tell you that this man, rather than the other, went home justified before God. For all those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted.”
Jesus even told the criminal next to him on the cross...
Luke 23:43
And he said to him, “Truly, I say to you, today you will be with me in Paradise.”
Why did Jesus tell him that:Luke 23:40-43
40 But the other criminal rebuked him. “Don’t you fear God,” he said, “since you are under the same sentence?
Jesus said that to the criminal because the criminal believed Jesus was, who Jesus said he was.
Romans 6:23
For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
John 17:3
And this is eternal life, that they know you the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent.
Matthew 25:46
And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”
I see you all think I am trying to be a bully, but that is not my intentions. I am asking questions to try and understand how LDS see teachings of Jsmith as they differ from teachings of Jesus. That is exactly what Jsmith did, right, he was asking and questioning, so does that make him a bully too?
The word Paradise in Luke 23:43 is
G3857
παράδεισος paradeisos
It is only used 3 times in the NT the other 2 times are:
2Cr 12:4
How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.
This is when Paul was speaking of the man being caught up into the 3rd heaven, which is what the LDS says is the Celestial kingdom.
Rev 2:7
He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.
So all three verse speak of heaven living with Jesus. So using the LDS teaching the criminal of the cross would have went
So all three verse speak of heaven living with Jesus. So using the LDS teaching the criminal of the cross would have went to the celestial kingdom.
I am not saying that exact day they went to heaven, by changing the comma placement in the sentence it could read. Jesus is telling the criminal that he has a place in heaven with him. Why, because of the man’s faith not by any form of work.
As LDS do you believe you are the only people that keep the commandments? And give at least 10% to the Lord?
The point of the parable is that works (checking off your covenant/ordinances list isn't going to get you where you think it will). I don't believe that someone can "claim" to believe in Jesus and then continue willfully sin or not show good works. Which is exactly what James is saying. ( 14 What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have faith but has no deeds?) James says “claims” because "good works" are proof of real faith. When you love Jesus because you accept his free gift that cannot be earned you are so full of love and humility "good works" pours out of you natural. You are doing "good works out of love, not because you fear you won’t live with Jesus someday.
1 John 4:18-19 There is no fear in love; instead, perfect love drives out fear, because fear involves punishment.[a] So the one who fears has n
1 John 4:18-19 There is no fear in love; instead, perfect love drives out fear, because fear involves punishment.[a] So the one who fears has not reached perfection in love. 19 We love[b] because He first loved us.
I am sure most people who love Jesus feel that not being able to live with him would be a severe form of punishment.
LDS claim you have to work for the right to live with Jesus, so the works are done out of fear of loss. There is a difference between the commandments and laws/covenants. What are the 2 commandments that Jesus teaches sum up all the laws and prophets Matthew 22:35-40
35 One of them, an expert in the law, tested him with this question: 36 “Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?”
37 Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’[A] 38 this is the first and greatest commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’[b] 40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”
Of course if anyone is truly following Jesus they will keep his commandments.
@penny – people who love and follow Jesus don’t want to be saved and then separated from him. So yes, you do teach that works is the only way to live with Jesus
The “works” Jesus speaks of are, feeding the hungry, clothing the poor, taking care of widows and orphans. Loving and treating each others as ourselves.
Joseph Smiths “works” are paying a 10% tithe so the church can build a billion dollar mall, property, banks, newspaper ect, it is a business. Doing Temple rituals ect.
Do you see the difference? Jsmith was teaching LDS members that all other churches were an Abomination. Maybe you’re a young member, but the old temple video told that Protestants were of the devil. He was blasting all Christians. You will say I am lying, but again if you read the teachings of Jsmith and Byoung you will see I am not.
@Publius- Jesus taught 2 commandments summed up everything:
Matthew 22:36-40
36 “Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?”
37 Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’[a] 38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’[b] 40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”
So no need to add in all of Joseph Smiths laws.
10 Answers
- 8 years agoFavorite Answer
Why does LDS theology teach most of the stuff it teaches? Because it's craziness created by a con man and pushed by deceivers. It's a dispicable cult followed by many well-meaning, good people. I feel sorry for them.
- ElsieLv 68 years ago
I guess this would make sense if you completely ignore all of the other verses in the Bible that teach the importance of obedience to God's commandments, such as paying tithing, making covenants, serving others, witnessing of Christ and so forth.
I really don't know what you are trying to accomplish with all of these antagonistic questions, but if your goal is to invite disrespect and criticism of the teachings of the LDS Church, you have succeeded, but at the same time you do far more harm to the reputation of your own type of Christianity than you do to the LDS Church. Your spirit of contention and judgmental attitude does not soften the hearts of the LDS reading this, nor does it make your type of Christianity look appealing to non-Christians. About the only thing it does do is alienate us Mormons and gives you and your fellow anti-Mormons a bully pulpit. I think Paul and Dan's reaction to your question supports this.
- 8 years ago
"Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father in Heaven" Matthew 5: 16 One of the very first Bible verses I learned as a child (as a Lutheran, before I joined the LDS church.)
"Faith without works is dead." James 2: 14-26
"If thou has done it to the least of these, my brethren, thou has done it to me." Matt 25: 38-46
You know Judy, we all know that Jesus paid the price for our sins. He is our only way to salvation. But how do we, in turn, show Jesus our acceptance of His gift, our gratitude for Him, and our obedience? (If thou lovest me, keep my commandments. John 14:15)
You can run around and shout "I'm saved!! (And you Mormons are not!) Whoohoo!" (kind of like the bloke in the first parable that you cited) or you can obediently serve the Lord by humbly quietly serving others--as He asked us to do.
Our life is a gift from a God, What we do with it is our gift to Him. I would rather give back than just take from Him and gloat like your religion seems to be teaching you to do.
Source(s): I'm LDS - mormon_4_jesusLv 78 years ago
The "works" that Jesus referred to was the works of the Law of Moses. We do not follow the Law of Moses.
If Jesus asked you to sell everything you own, give the money to the poor, and follow Him, would you do it? I think most Christians would give an unqualified "YES!" to that question. But, they won't even think of giving a measly 10% to the church.
When Jesus said to the thief "Today you will be with Me in Paradise", remember that Jesus did not go to Heaven, because He told Mary at the tomb that He had not yet ascended to His Father. The thief did not repent of his sins right then. So, it's more than just saying Sorry, or saying Jesus is my Savior.
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- Penny LaneLv 78 years ago
You've missed the entire point of that parable. Which isnt surprising considering the combative and judgmental attitude you exhibit on this website daily.
Jesus was comparing someone who had only works and pride to someone who was humble. We can be humble AND keep JESUS' commandments. "if ye love me, keep my commandments". Sound familiar?? Jesus taught us, in the plainest of terms, exactly how to love him. And it had nothing to do with warm fuzzies.
I see you also forgot that we are taught in the Bible that faith without works is dead, being alone. Meaning, faith is an action word, not just a feeling. We FOLLOW Christ, we dont just acknowledge his existence.
Cast all the stones you want, dear. I esp appreciate your damning verse taking completely out of context at the end of your "question". I fear someday you will hear it echoed back to you.
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One last thing to clarify. We do NOT teach that works save us. We teach that works are the fruit of love and faith. You cannot pretend to love a God you refuse to serve. YOU teach a doctrine that works dont matter and shouldnt even be addressed. How you can possibly defend that is beyond me.
"If you love me... keep my commandments". Period. It SHOULD be taught, and it SHOULD be emphasized. And we do still know, ultimately, its the grace of Christ that saves us.
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Your words: " I don't believe that someone can "claim" to believe in Jesus and then continue willfully sin or not show good works". Then you believe in works too. We never claimed our works save us. We just claimed they were the natural fruit of a dedication to serving God. and they are. You have made it into something ego-centric and bragging. When you attack people who teach that following Gods commandments is important, you are teaching (even if subconsciously) that works dont matter at all, as long as you believe in Christ. You can sin, as long as you believe, and its all the same. Its not. Its a lie and it mocks his sacrifice to us.
And please dont try and act like you are just innocently asking questions. Not one of your answers on this site wasnt dripping with accusation and condemnation of our faith. Joseph Smith was asking for clarification to know what to do, not to condemn others. He was directing most of his questions...to God. Not throwing verses at people to make them "see" how wrong they are.
- rrosskopfLv 78 years ago
Jesus wasn't teaching people to sin, but to be humble. Pride is a sin. So let us be humble, and keep all the commandments of God, that he has given us because of his love for us. Let us put our faith in his words, and trust in his judgement. Let us not turn our back on the savior of mankind.
A paradise is a place of peace and rest. Jesus was referring to the spirit world, or Sheol where all men go to await the resurrection and final judgement. Three days later he told Mary that he had yet to ascend to see his Father. He hadn't gone to heaven yet.
Jesus and his disciples taught repentance. It is a basic tenant of his gospel. Let's be true Christians, and let Christ lead us unto righteousness.
"except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish." -Luke 13:3
"And they went out, and preached that men should repent."-Mark 6:12
"Repent ye, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand."-Matthew 3:2
"Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect." - Matthew 5:48
"I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance." - Luke 5:32
"Bring forth therefore fruits worthy of repentance, and begin not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, That God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham." - Luke 3:8
- 8 years ago
What are works? Mormons talk about works, but im a mormon and honestly people who are not mormon say that mormons believe in works a lot more than we mention works.
Jesus didnt say no works, he said that people need to humble themselves. According to mormon teachings, humbling yourself would be considered a work because its something that you actually have to do, it requires effort and for some people it really is hard.
- PaulLv 78 years ago
Because that's the religion they made up, and believe in.
Somebody else made yours up, and you believe in it -- with no more good reason than they have.
Your bible is also littered with quotes from "jesus" and apostles and prophets and more saying you must do "good works," that faith is not enough.
Hey, don't blame me, it's your bible that's self-contradictory. That's what happens when hundreds of people make up stories over hundreds of years, such things are never self-consistent.
