Jehovah's Witnesses: Please Help Explain Revelation 6:9-11?

Please be prepared for any response from current Jehovah's Witnesses to be directly lifted from the Watchtower Bible & Tract Societies publication Revelation -It's Grand Climax at Hand!

Most haven't even read the Book of Revelation and will accept any explanation the Governing Body gives them...including how trumpet blasts represent some of their landmark conventions of the last century.

I'm sure while John was on Patmos receiving the revelation...he had the Watchtower Bible & Tract Society in mind. NOT.

Peter 3:19-20 "By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; (20) Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water."

Clearly this doesnt cover every soul that was drowned at the time of the deluge. It is talking of those spirits - not persons, spirits, which had gone down to earth and taken on human form. .

Why try to change the meaning? Why would Jesus only preach to those who died in Noahs day? Its obvious that it means the spirits who were disobedient.

Let the Bible alone set the ground rules. At the outset, the Revelation comes from God through Jesus to John. Rev 1:1 tells it is presented in signs. Further v. 10 tells us of the "Lord's Day". Internal evidence of the many visions contained in the Revelation pinpoint the Lord's Day as the time when God's Kingdom is born in the heavens and Satan is confined to the vicinity of the earth. (Rev 12) Thereafter, the serpent, dragon, Satan and devil continues to make war on the seed of the woman, the ones bearing witness to Jesus. (Gen 3:15)

The ones described in Rev 6:9-11 are casualties of this war. @TJ makes a fatal assumption in his answer. He assumes the ones speaking are alive and not speaking figuratively as Rev 1:1 alludes to. He believes the serpents original lie. Here is an excerpt from a conversation with one who, like @TJ, believes the doctrine.

"+++ was talking with a householder about the immortality of the Soul.

The brother turned to Genesis 2:17 and read it to the householder and said

"Here God states that you will positively die."

Then he turned to Genesis 3:4 and read it to the householder and said "Here

Satan said you will positively not die. Which do you choose to believe?"****

@TJ also does not know the spirits in prison are those fallen angels God has condemned. Look at Mark 1:23-27 Here is v 24 "“What have we to do with you,* Jesus you Nazarene′? Did you come to destroy us? I know exactly who you are, the Holy One of God.” Note the "we" and "us"? Do your research. That research will lead you to the 'spirits in prison' spoken of by Peter.

@TJ chooses to believe Satan.

So in looking over the answers to your question, only one is correct. CF

Go back the the Revelation... John saw the vision in his day, 2,000 yrs ago. Looking forward to the Lord's Day. During the Lord's Day is the time when Jesus brothers who had died were resurrected to heaven. So it was as if these ones, Jesus brothers were alive and asking for vengeance. The rest you know.

EDITED--- Please be more specific. Quote the specific statements you are talking about that contradict.---------- Thanks-----------------------------------

“And when he opened the fifth seal, I saw underneath the altar the souls of those slaughtered because of the word of God and because of the witness work that they used to have.” (Revelation 6:9) What is that? A sacrificial altar up in heaven? Yes! It is the first time that John mentions an altar. Already, though, he has described Jehovah on His throne, the surrounding cherubs, the glassy sea, the lamps, and the 24 elders carrying incense—all of these resembling features of the earthly tabernacle, Jehovah’s sanctuary in Israel. (Exodus 25:17, 18; 40:24-27, 30-32; 1 Chronicles 24:4) Should it, then, surprise us to find a symbolic altar of sacrifice also in heaven?—Exodus 40:29.

Underneath this altar are “the souls of those slaughtered because of the word of God and because of the witness work that they used to have.” What does this mean? These could not be disembodied souls—like those believed in by the pagan Greeks. (Genesis 2:7; Ezekiel 18:4) Rather, John knows that the soul, or life, is symbolized by the blood, and when the priests at the ancient Jewish tabernacle slaughtered a sacrificial animal, they sprinkled the blood “round about upon the altar” or poured it “at the base of the altar of burnt offering.” (Leviticus 3:2, 8, 13; 4:7; 17:6, 11, 12) Hence, the animal’s soul was closely identified with the altar of sacrifice. But why would the souls, or blood, of these particular servants of God be seen underneath a symbolic altar in heaven? Because their deaths are viewed as sacrificial.

And they cried with a loud voice, saying: ‘Until when, Sovereign Lord holy and true, are you refraining from judging and avenging our blood upon those who dwell on the earth?’” (Revelation 6:10) How can their souls, or blood, cry out for vengeance, since the Bible shows that the dead are unconscious? (Ecclesiastes 9:5) Well, did not righteous Abel’s blood cry out after Cain murdered him? Jehovah then said to Cain: “What have you done? Listen! Your brother’s blood is crying out to me from the ground.” (Genesis 4:10, 11; Hebrews 12:24) It was not that Abel’s blood was literally uttering words. Rather, Abel had died as an innocent victim, and justice called out for his murderer to be punished. Similarly, those Christian martyrs are innocent, and in justice they must be avenged. (Luke 18:7, 8) The cry for vengeance is loud because many thousands have thus died.—Compare Jeremiah 15:15, 16.

And a white robe was given to each of them; and they were told to rest a little while longer, until the number was filled also of their fellow slaves and their brothers who were about to be killed as they also had been.” (Revelation 6:11) Their receiving “a white robe” has to do with their resurrection to be immortal spirit creatures. No longer do they lie as slaughtered souls underneath the altar, but they are raised to be part of the group of 24 elders that worship before the heavenly throne of God. There, they themselves have been given thrones, showing that they have entered into royal privileges. And they are “dressed in white outer garments,” signifying that they have been adjudged righteous, worthy of an honored place before Jehovah in that heavenly court. This is also in fulfillment of Jesus’ promise to faithful anointed Christians in the congregation in Sardis: “He that conquers will thus be arrayed in white outer garments.”—Revelation 3:5; 4:4; 1 Peter 1:4.

John describes a moving scene: “And when he opened the fifth seal, I saw underneath the altar the souls of those slaughtered because of the word of God and because of the witness work that they used to have.” (Revelation 6:9) What is that? A sacrificial altar up in heaven? Yes! It is the first time that John mentions an altar. Already, though, he has described Jehovah on His throne, the surrounding cherubs, the glassy sea, the lamps, and the 24 elders carrying incense—all of these resembling features of the earthly tabernacle, Jehovah’s sanctuary in Israel. (Exodus 25:17, 18; 40:24-27, 30-32; 1 Chronicles 24:4) Should it, then, surprise us to find a symbolic altar of sacrifice also in heaven?—Exodus 40:29.

3 Underneath this altar are “the souls of those slaughtered because of the word of God and because of the witness work that they used to have.” What does this mean? These could not be disembodied souls—like those believed in by the pagan Greeks. (Genesis 2:7; Ezekiel 18:4) Rather, John knows that the soul, or life, is symbolized by the blood, and when the priests at the ancient Jewish tabernacle slaughtered a sacrificial animal, they sprinkled the blood “round about upon the altar” or poured it “at the base of the altar of burnt offering.” (Leviticus 3:2, 8, 13; 4:7; 17:6, 11, 12) Hence, the animal’s soul was closely identified with the altar of sacrifice. But why would the souls, or blood, of these particular servants of God be seen underneath a symbolic altar in heaven? Because their deaths are viewed as sacrificial.

4 Indeed, all those who are begotten as spirit sons of God die a sacrificial death. Because of the role they are to play in Jehovah’s heavenly Kingdom, it is God’s will that they renounce and sacrifice any hope of life everlasting on earth. In this respect, they submit to a sacrificial death in behalf of Jehovah’s sovereignty. (Philippians 3:8-11; compare 2:17.) This is true in a very real sense of those whom John saw under the altar. They are anointed ones who in their day were martyred for their zealous ministry in upholding Jehovah’s Word and sovereignty. Their “souls [were] slaughtered because of the word of God and because of the witness work [mar·ty·ri′an] that they used to have.”

5 The scenario continues to unfold: “And they cried with a loud voice, saying: ‘Until when, Sovereign Lord holy and true, are you refraining from judging and avenging our blood upon those who dwell on the earth?’” (Revelation 6:10) How can their souls, or blood, cry out for vengeance, since the Bible shows that the dead are unconscious? (Ecclesiastes 9:5) Well, did not righteous Abel’s blood cry out after Cain murdered him? Jehovah then said to Cain: “What have you done? Listen! Your brother’s blood is crying out to me from the ground.” (Genesis 4:10, 11; Hebrews 12:24) It was not that Abel’s blood was literally uttering words. Rather, Abel had died as an innocent victim, and justice called out for his murderer to be punished. Similarly, those Christian martyrs are innocent, and in justice they must be avenged. (Luke 18:7, 8) The cry for vengeance is loud because many thousands have thus died.—Compare Jeremiah 15:15, 16.

“And a white robe was given to each of them; and they were told to rest a little while longer, until the number was filled also of their fellow slaves and their brothers who were about to be killed as they also had been.” (Revelation 6:11) Their receiving “a white robe” has to do with their resurrection to be immortal spirit creatures. No longer do they lie as slaughtered souls underneath the altar, but they are raised to be part of the group of 24 elders that worship before the heavenly throne of God. There, they themselves have been given thrones, showing that they have entered into royal privileges. And they are “dressed in white outer garments,” signifying that they have been adjudged righteous, worthy of an honored place before Jehovah in that heavenly court. This is also in fulfillment of Jesus’ promise to faithful anointed Christians in the congregation in Sardis: “He that conquers will thus be arrayed in white outer garments.”—Revelation 3:5; 4:4; 1 Peter 1:4.

The JWs have interpreted this passage incorrectly, arriving at an unscriptural conclusion. Their belief that christ's presence started invisibly in 1914 has a part to play in their error. They teach that the souls crying out in heaven refer to literal resurrected anointed ones. This cannot be true based on what other scriptures teach about the timing of the resurrection and ascension of christians to heaven.

First of all, let's note that Revelation 6:11 mentions other christians are to be killed at a time future to these souls crying out. This would mean that the great tribulation has not yet occurred - or at the very least hasn't finished. So will christians be going to heaven before the great tribulation ends?

The bible answers no. According to 1 Corinthians 15:52 the anointed are raised up during the sounding of the "last trumpet". Matthew 24:29,31 mentions the sounding of a great trumpet *after* the great tribulation. Logically, then, the anointed must be raised up sometime *after* the great tribulation. So these souls crying out in heaven cannot be literal resurrected ones.

Secondly, Revelation 6:11 shows that some anointed christians are still alive on earth for they are yet to be killed. This also proves that these souls crying out for justice cannot be resurrected ones in heaven because the bible indicates that all anointed christians will ascend to heaven *together*. Paul made this point in 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17. After mentioning in verse 15 that the living will not go ahead of the dead, he went on to make the point in verse 17 that after the dead are raised up, they and the living anointed will ascend to heaven *together*. The fact that he stressed the living will not go ahead of the dead and then went on to use a greek word meaning "together, at the same time" in verse 17, leaves us in no doubt that he was making the point that no group would preempt the other but that all would go together. Thus you cannot have some anointed in heaven while there are still some on earth. That idea is not scriptural. The JW organization does a bit of clumsy reasoning to get around what Paul was clearly saying to the Thessalonians if you look at the Greek of that text.

So what is Revelation 6:9-11 about? It is my belief that that passage is symbolic. (No surprise there given that we're talking about the book of Revelation) The souls who were executed with the axe and are crying out for vengeance represent the lives of faithful christians who died sacrificial deaths as martyrs at the hands of violent persecutors.

Their souls crying out for vengeance from heaven symbolizes God's sensitivity to the injustice done to them. To him, it's as if their deaths cry out for vengeance just as Abel's blood was said to cry out to him from the ground. It's a figurative appeal to God's sense of justice rather than literal crying out. But he restrains himself from avenging them yet so that others can also prove loyal to death at the hands of persecutors.

He tells them to rest a little longer. Rest in scripture, is associated with death. Thus these ones are still literally dead. The fact that they are pictured under the altar testifies to the fact that they have not progressed beyond the point of their sacrificial deaths - they have not been resurrected. Why are they told to rest?

Since anointed christians would share with christ in metting out vengeance at armageddon, God's avending the deaths of these servants is linked to their resurrection. This is why God tells them to rest a little longer. In other words, the time for their resurrection to share with christ in metting out vengeance is not yet.

Well i guess you already got your answer that you need ... it a Stumper question since it is another mistake made by JWs is their denial of the immortality of the soul. The Bible mentions the soul approximately 200 times ( look how FOOLISH they try wiggling they way from answering the question)

Do Humans Possess an Immortal Soul? If no please Explain Revelation 6:9-11?

Seriously thou... Christ’s descent to Hades. ( CONTRADICT JW,s Doctrine ) In 1 Peter 3:19, the apostle tells his audience how Jesus "preached to the spirits in prison." If the dead were aware of nothing as The Governing Body Interpret, then his preaching would have been futile. ( JW Made Jesus sound foolish )

In fact, the souls live past the death of the bodies, since John "saw . . . the souls of those slaughtered . . . and they cried with a loud voice, saying . . . and they were told . . . " (Rev. 6:9-11). Because the soul does not die with the flesh, those in heaven are able to offer our prayers to God (Rev. 5:8), and live in happiness (Rev. 14:13).

[ EDIT ]

@bob7777

aka FALSE TEACHER...

stop trying to use different subject to another unrelated subject. Just to make it sound legitimate. Making statement intended to make people believe something that is not true is a deception .

You must be at your end wits to be force to use rhetorical forms of False dilemmas just to exegesis your Governing Body's Interpretation..

“. . . in which he went and proclaimed to the spirits in prison.” 1 Peter 3:19

1 Peter 3:19-20 "By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; (20) Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water."

and the identity of the “spirits in prison” to whom he preached. Are the spirits of those who perished in the flood and are now in hell. the number of people saved in the ark is mentioned at the above verse..

If you want to say that all of them are "fallen Angel " Go on ahead.. No body stopping you ( Freedom of Speech ). Since1 Peter 3:19-20 are obscure Bible reference. You can interpret it to refer to 2 Peter 2:4-5 and Jude 6, which refer to rebellious angels, punished by God with imprisonment, just as in 1 Peter 3.

But this is going sideways from answering the OP Question...

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Mark+1...

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Back to Revelation 6:9-11

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Revelation 6:9-11

9"When [the Lamb] opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain because of the word of God and the testimony they had maintained. 10 They called out in a loud voice, 'How long, Sovereign Lord, holy and true, until you judge the inhabitants of the earth and avenge our blood?' 11 Then each of them was given a white robe, and they were told to wait a little longer, until the number of their fellow servants and brothers who were to be killed as they had been was completed"

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=revela...

When these people died on Earth, they relocated to Heaven (v. 9).

These people in Heaven were the same ones killed for Christ while on Earth (v. 9)

(This demonstrates direct continuity between our identity on Earth and our identity in Heaven. The martyrs' personal history extends directly back to their lives on Earth. Those in the intermediate Heaven are not different people; they are the same people relocated—"righteous men made perfect" (Hebrews 12:23).)

People in Heaven will be remembered for their lives on Earth. These were known and identified as ones slain "because of…the testimony they had maintained" (v. 9)

"They called out" (v. 10) means they are able to express themselves audibly This indicates that they are rational, communicative, and emotional—even passionate—beings, like people on Earth.

The martyrs clearly remember their lives on Earth (v. 10). They remember at least some of the bad things from earth, since they even remember that they were murdered.

The martyrs' wearing white robes suggests the possibility of actual physical forms, because disembodied spirits presumably don't wear robes. The robes may well have symbolic meaning, but it doesn't mean they couldn't also be physical. The martyrs appear to have physical forms that John could actually see.

verse 11 God knows exactly how many martyrs there will be, and he is prepared to return and set up his Kingdom when the final martyr dies.

You do not know what it means so you ask a cult group to explain it to you ?