Catholics and Orthodox: Is this view of faith compatable with your beliefs?

Question

Faith is not what some people think it is. Their human dream is a delusion. Because they observe that faith is not followed by good works or a better life, they fall into error, even though they speak and hear much about faith. “Faith is not enough,” they say, “You must do good works, you must be pious to be saved.” They think that, when you hear the gospel, you start working, creating by your own strength a thankful heart which says, “I believe.” That is what they think true faith is. But, because this is a human idea, a dream, the heart never learns anything from it, so it does nothing and reform doesn’t come from this `faith,’ either.

Instead, faith is God’s work in us, that changes us and gives new birth from God. (John 1:13). It kills the Old Adam and makes us completely different people. It changes our hearts, our spirits, our thoughts and all our powers. It brings the Holy Spirit with it. Yes, it is a living, creative, active and powerful thing, this faith. Faith cannot help doing good works constantly. It doesn’t stop to ask if good works ought to be done, but before anyone asks, it already has done them and continues to do them without ceasing. Anyone who does not do good works in this manner is an unbeliever. He stumbles around and looks for faith and good works, even though he does not know what faith or good works are. Yet he gossips and chatters about faith and good works with many words.

Faith is a living, bold trust in God’s grace, so certain of God’s favor that it would risk death a thousand times trusting in it. Such confidence and knowledge of God’s grace makes you happy, joyful and bold in your relationship to God and all creatures. The Holy Spirit makes this happen through faith. Because of it, you freely, willingly and joyfully do good to everyone, serve everyone, suffer all kinds of things, love and praise the God who has shown you such grace. Thus, it is just as impossible to separate faith and works as it is to separate heat and light from fire! Therefore, watch out for your own false ideas and guard against good-for-nothing gossips, who think they’re smart enough to define faith and works, but really are the greatest of fools. Ask God to work faith in you, or you will remain forever without faith, no matter what you wish, say or can do.-Martin Luther

James · Accepted Answer

Eastern Orthodox perspective here:

The first thing to point out to you is that in the Eastern Orthodoxy Church, our Soteriology differs from Western Christianity entirely, so the concept of "faith vs. works" is seen as a Western idea to us that is virtually absent in our Soteriology. We do not view Salvation as a forgiveness verdict--which, correct me if I'm wrong, is what you believe in Western Christianity--rather, we view Salvation as the lifelong process of being conformed to the image of God as "partakers of the Divine nature." This is called Theosis.

We believe that because God became man, we can in turn experience God on a level never possible before. We can really be illumined by Him, truly experience Him, and truly be like Him and actually partake of His Divine nature, similar to a sword being heated by a flame. The sword never becomes flame; but it can be like the flame because of the flame that is illuminating it. We would say that this is all possible because of Christ--who we believe was both fully human and fully God, acting as a bridge connecting together the created world and the Divine. We believe that the chasm between humanity and God was destroyed because of Christ, and that we can now experience this amazing Theosis.

We believe that Salvation is a PROCESS because while God supplies Salvation to us through Grace--make no mistakes, Salvation is a gift and there is NOTHING that anyone can do to "earn" it, we'd agree with you there--we ultimately have to make the PERSONAL EFFORT to receive it into our lives and ALLOW God to transform us. We believe that God wants us to make a personal effort because He wants us to truly be partakers of the Divine nature not because of compulsion or because He is doing all of the work for us, but because of our own volitional choice and effort. It's about a true ontological transformation of who you are as a person; which can't come about from compulsion or lack of personal effort. Therefore, we view it as a Synergy--that is, a cooperation between man and God. God supplies Salvation through His Grace and healing energies from the Incarnation, and we receive them through obeying God's instructions in this life to the very best of our ability.

The first and foremost way that we do this is through partaking of the Church's Sacraments such as the Eucharist and Baptism for example, because we view them as being "medicines"--as part of a doctor's "treatment" that God has prescribed for humanity. In them, we literally receive God's healing grace and believe that He is there present with us, saving us. But the Sacraments go beyond the Church's big 7 Sacraments. In Eastern Orthodoxy, we view our entire lives as being Sacramental--as being a way of receiving God's grace and experiencing Him--so we make our very best efforts to try to do EVERYTHING that we do--from having sex to eating--as a way of glorifying God, growing closer to Him, and receiving His grace. We believe that Christ has offered us a way of truly living real, true Life illuminated by God through following His instructions with a faithful disposition and our very best efforts.

That being said, "faith vs. works" is a non-question in Orthodoxy because we don't believe in Salvation in the same way that the West does. We believe that God saves us, but that we receive His Salvation through our lifelong cooperation with Him which requires both our faith and our works.

1) No

2) No, but you are closer. The problem with the Lutheran view of good works "stemming" from faith is that it suggests that no personal effort is required, whereas we would say that we have to make a personal effort because God is not going to do everything for us. Remember, it's about a true ontological transformation of who we are as people into partakers of the Divine nature; our volitional cooperation and effort is required. Therefore, we would say that faith and works are separate things, however, they are meant to be operated together and to separate one apart from the other is to make them void. You cannot be deified through doing God's works without faith; there is no personal development without faith. Even the Pharisees kept the laws out of a spirit of legalism. Similarly though, you can't say that you have faith and not do anything about it. Even the demons believe. God requires us to make a personal effort to receive His Salvation into our lives through living Sacramentally with a faithful disposition.

3) Yes, however, only if you concede that personal effort is required.

Anonymous · Answer

Faith is nothing but an excuse word for believers who have no reasons for their beliefs, but if they did have any reasons then faith would be unnecessary!!! It is all a con, religious works are all man made up stories and man is the top story teller in the universe, so far!!! So that is enough reason for sane educated people to doubt every word of all of the holy books!!! Have a great day!!!

PaulCyp · Answer

Read the last ten verses of Matt 25, and then tell me you can be saved without works.

Anonymous · Answer

I'm catholic so yes.

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Catholics and Orthodox: Is this view of faith compatable with your beliefs?

4 Answers