Isaiah 9: 6 How is this relevant in Jewish prophecy, that anyone would be called these things?

Point 1)

Ancient Rabbinical comments looked to Isaiah 9.6 as about the Messiah.

A) “R. Yose the Galilean said: “The name of the Messiah is Peace, for it is said, ‘Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace’” (Midrash Pereq Shalom p. 101); “The Messiah is called by eight names: Yinnon [see Psalm 72:17], Tzemach [e.g. Jer. 23.5]; Pele’ (Wonderful)…… see Deuteronomy Rabbah 1:20

B) Rabbi Samuel, the son of Nachman, said, ‘When Esau met Jacob he said unto him, “My brother Jacob, let us walk together in this world. Jacob replied: Let my Lord, I pray thee, pass over before his servant” (Genesis 33:14) What is the meaning of, “I pray thee, pass over? Jacob said to him; I have yet to supply the Messiah, of whom it is said: “Unto us a child is born” Midrash (Deuteronomy 2;4)

C) See also the Targum of Isaiah 9:6

“For to us a son is born, to us a son is given; and he shall receive the Law upon him to keep it; and his name is called from of Old, wonderful, Counselor, Eloha, The Mighty, Abiding to Eternity, The Messiah, because peace shall be multiplied on us in his days.” Targum Jonathan

Point 2)

It was not Hezekiah. Hezekiah was twenty-five years old when he began to reign. The Bible establishes that Sennacherib’s army attacked the cities of Judah during the fourteenth year of Hezekiah’s reign (2 Kings 18:13). Hezekiah was 39 years old (25+14) at the time, this took place:

Hezekiah was 39 years old during the Assyrian invasion. Could the phrase "for unto us a child is born" apply to a 39 year old man who was the king of Judah for 14 years?

Consideration of the context of Isaiah 9:6, Isaiah 9:6 speaks of a deliverance and government that never occurred in Hezekiah’s time. In Hezekiah’s day Assyria devastated, dominated, and deported Galilee. The deliverance of Galilee did not come with Hezekiah. In addition the government of Hezekiah does not live up to the description given in the text.

Point 3)

Isaiah 9:6 must be taken in context with Isaiah 7:14 and thru chapter 11. This whole section has special prophecies. Isaiah 11 is clearly 100% Messianic. So Isaiah 9.6 must be taken in the context of what is in surrounding chapters. And there a very special child is to be born (Chapter 7). The “child is born” and “son is given” is called by names, which are clearly associated with God. (Isaiah 9:6) Then in Isaiah 11 – we are told of His eventual reign! So the whole section must be looked at together. This section (7 - 11) is a mini-BIO (if you will) of a special person! (No way is this about Hezekiah).

Point 4)

The names associated with Messiah also reflect his nature, this is the purpose of the name. Names are used throughout scripture to reflect the person being called. For example Hagar calls God, (El Ro’iy) after God Himself reassures her in Genesis 16:13. Names mean character.

Names mean something. The name used in 9.6 to describe the Messiah is El Gabor "Mighty God." This phrase is only used 3 times in the Tanakh, Isaiah 10:21 and Ezekiel 32;21.

Isaiah 10:21 states “The remnant will return, the remnant of Jacob, to the (El Gabor) Mighty God.” (SAME name in Hebrew as Isaiah 9:6)

This person must be very special as He has a Name only used by God Himself.

Also – what about the name: Everlasting Father?

This term is used only once in the Hebrew Bible, here in Isaiah 9:6 (5). Here the person (I believe the Messiah) is called is called by a name if which, when combined with Mighty God ( just previously) would be considered blasphemous if the Messiah were not eternal. The idea of an eternal Messiah, is clearly presented in scripture. In Isaiah 9:7 we are told about Messiah’s reign, “There will be no end” and it will be “even forever”.

Point 5)

The reason we know this verse is clearly Messianic is because it refers to the everlasting throne of King David. This characteristic is unmistakable in scripture. To deny these verses as Messianic, would be to deny scripture itself. Lets examine the nature of the this child’s authority. 1) Government will be upon His shoulder 2) Increase of His government and peace there will be no end 3) Upon the throne of David forever.

Hezekiah???? I think not.

And this is just the START.

There is not a shadow of doubt – Yeshua (Jesus) is the Messiah of Israel.

**************************************…

Jewish Dr. Michael Brown (Ph.D. NY University) has given definitive answers to virtually all traditional Jewish arguments. (I challenge all to read it.) He uses Rabbinic (Talmudic) sources and a correct interpretation of scripture that even the ancient Rabbis agreed with! (Not that they believed in Yeshua, but Dr. Brown shows they understood certain passages [including Isaiah 53] as Messianic prophecies – contrary to what you hear on Yahoo Answers from people who say “This is not a Messianic passage’).

Read a great 5 VOLUME SET – ANSWERING JEWISH OBJECTIONS TO JESUS! (over 1,400+ pages of very scholarly research).

It will stop EVERY Jewish unbeliever’s misinterpretations and objections based upon the solid evidence of the Hebrew text. An amazing five volume set by Dr. Michael Brown. Michael Brown holds a Ph.D. in Near Eastern Languages and Literature from New York University. **He is the author of OVER 25 BOOKS. ** And has lectured worldwide. You can find him on YouTube as well.

Just to be clear--"Jesus Made Me Kosher" is totally wrong.

To his first point: R. Yose the Galilean lived in the 1st and 2nd centuries of the common era, **after** Jesus, so the nature of his comment is clearly directed towards someone else. Rabbi Sameul ben Nachman lived in the 3rd century until the beginning of the 4th century. Clearly, if these men had thought that Jesus was the messiah, they would have referred to him a such.

His second point is irrelevant, since the book may not hav been written all at one time. And if he can't accept Hezekiah being called "child", then he should also be honest enough to realize that the following verse, "That the government may be increased, and of peace there be no end," certainly didn't apply to Jesus either.

His third point--don't get me started. Isaiah 7:14, for one thing, is correctly translated as, "THE young woman shall conceive, and bear a son", which says first, that Isaish likely knew the woman, and second, that it's "young worman" and **not** "virgin".

His point 4--Again, a mistranslation of the Hebrew. What the Hebrew **really** says is, "and his name will be called, 'A wonderful counselor is the mighty G-d, an everlasting father is the ruler of peace.'". This is an homage to G-d, not something reflecting the person himself.

Point 5--Yup, it's messianic all right. And we're still waiting for the messiah.

JEWISH answer: they were relevant for that time period. They were never prophecy for a divine sacrificed "savior" - the back engineered verses don't mean a thing in Judaism.

** Isaiah 7:14 − The Hebrew Tanakh says “Therefore, the Lord, of His own, shall give you a sign; behold, the young woman (alma) is with child, and she will bear a son and she shall call his name Immanuel.” **Take note, this was written in the present tense. ** But the Greek Septuagint changed “alma,” saying “Behold, a virgin shall be with child and shall bear a son, and they shall call his name Immanuel” (Matthew 1:22-23). The church changed the entire verse from present to FUTURE tense and then went further to change the Hebrew alma, meaning a young woman to virgin.

** Isaiah 9:5 − The Hebrew Tanakh reads: “For a child has been born to us, a son has been given us and authority has settled on his shoulders. He has been named “The Mighty God” Isaiah was referring to King Hezekiah, son of Ahaz. Again, in an attempt to insert a Jesus prophecy, the KJV changed the tense from the present to the future, making it, “A child is born, a son is given and the government shall be upon his shoulder and his name shall be called Wonderful Counselor, the Mighty God”. [In Hebrew Hezekiah means “the mighty God.”]

I always say, when asking about religion X in terms of religion Y, go find someone who converted from X to Y.

and here he is....

Before the Dawn: Autobiographical Reflections by Eugenio Zolli, Former Chief Rabbi of Rome

by Eugenio Zolli (Author)

"This is the remarkable and inspiring story of how the famous and revered Chief Rabbi of Rome, Israel Zolli, became a Christian and entered the Catholic Church after World War II. Zolli was a world renowned Jewish leader and Scripture & Talmudic scholar, and an authority on Semitic philology.

This classic work outlines the spiritual journey of Rabbi Zolli, through prayer, Scripture meditation and lived experience, from devout Judaism to Catholicism, and it stands as a wonderful testament to the spirit of man which is always restless until it rests fully in Christ Jesus. He did not abandon his Jewish heritage, but says he discovered the fullness of what God offered in Jesus and His Church. Zolli took the Christian name of Eugenio to honor Pope Pius XII (Eugenio was his baptismal name) for all he did to save Jews during WWII."

Pele-joez-el-gibbor-Abi-ad-sar-shalom

That statement is a reference to Hezekiah, the son and heir of Ahaz, who was prophecised by Isaiah in the 8th Century BCE.

Jews murdered the Son of God the Messiah. Jews are not the chosen people.