troff2k

... at the address http://www.master3ddesign.com/Getting%20the%20Stor... , what lessons should we take away from this?

... response you've ever seen from an atheist or Christian or [whatever you're not] here?

This is ONE of THREE questions I'm posting, to each of three rough groupings (and it took so long to post this third question because Yahoo must've thought it was a spam post).

ATHEISTS and CHRISTIANS: I'm asking politely, PLEASE don't answer this question. Instead, there are separate, equivalent questions for you to answer please.

I posted a question earlier, linked at http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index;... .

I saw one response there that was just disturbing. It made me realise that there's some scary or disturbing or sick responses we see on these forums and I wanted to know what more there was out there.

Then I realised I should be fair and ask the same question FOR the other groups of us.

So?

... why use Bible quotes as proof when the non-believers DON'T believe?

(Note: this is a serious question, not merely a disguised put-down. This is something to which I really want to hear comprehensible answers.)

(Also note: seriously, honestly... it ought to be self-evident that quoting the Bible to answer this question is an automatic downvote, for crying out loud.)

... response you've ever seen from a non-Christian here?

This is ONE of THREE questions I'm posting, to each of three rough groupings.

NON-CHRISTIANS: I'm asking politely, PLEASE don't answer this question. Instead, there are separate, equivalent questions for you to answer please.

I posted a question earlier, linked at http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index;_ylt=AmdNV... .

I saw one response there that was just disturbing. It made me realise that there's some scary or disturbing or sick responses we see on these forums and I wanted to know what more there was out there.

Then I realised I should be fair and ask the same question FOR the other groups of us.

So?

... response you've ever seen from an non-atheist here?

This is ONE of THREE questions I'm posting, to each of three rough groupings.

NON-ATHEISTS: I'm asking politely, PLEASE don't answer this question. Instead, there are separate, equivalent questions for you to answer please.

I posted a question earlier, linked at http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index;_ylt=AmdNV... .

I saw one response there that was just disturbing. It made me realise that there's some scary or disturbing or sick responses we see on these forums and I wanted to know what more there was out there.

Then I realised I should be fair and ask the same question FOR the other groups of us.

So?

... specifically in the article at http://www.tampabay.com/news/perspective/article94... :

1) Atheist nations are happier and healthier

2) the positive effect of religion is seen as being SOCIAL (people), not DIVINE (God)

3) the majority-religious-society in America is CAUSING the improper misery of American atheists.

After you've read the article (and not before, please): comments?

How does this square with the idea of "love thy neighbour / fellow man"?

Even if atheists ARE somehow supposedly "attacking" Christians, what happened to "turn the other cheek"?

How are evangelical Christians supposed to convince atheists that they're all about peace, love, fellowship and understanding when the article indicates there appears to be evidence that it's instead about exclusion, marginalisation and persecution?

(Disclaimer: I am not American or even in America. I'm just reading the article and pointing it out here for discussion. Thanks...)

a) Anything they want, even if / when...

... 1) there's no evidence for it, or

... 2) it's provably untrue?

b) whatever your answer: Why?

PLEASE NOTE: This is NOT about any specific Belief. For this question, I am NOT saying "oh, but Religion X is untrue, the myth is a copy of others" or "there's no evidence for Evolution, it's a lie!". I am not saying "[ Judaism | Christianity | Buddhism | Mormonism | Evolutionism ] requires faith!".

This question is NOT discussing specific beliefs of ANY kind. Big downvotes and no chance at "Best Answer" for anybody who sees this as an attack on their personal belief.

Let's rephrase the question: "a) Is having faith (without, or with conflicting evidence) right; and, b) why?"

After all: we have to provide evidence in courts. In school, you have to "show your working"; and etc..

Best marks for answering both parts (a) and (b) please.

... remain unanswered? Are there any "stumpers" Christians have for which we don't yet have good answers?

Christians - truly, really, seriously: please, please: no preaching. Buddy R, Fireball, Ryan, please just don't. I've had specific questions for your demographics before, please leave this one alone; thanks. I'm trying to do some information gathering here.

( I have to put in that disclaimer before because I keep getting answers like "oh, you atheists can't answer my questions"... and yet I do in every post. ( http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index;_ylt=AirLR... ) )

... energy / light or matter?

If neither, then what?

After all, if people can see or hear God / Jesus or angels or souls or spirits, if God could give Mary a living child, doesn't that mean God can affect matter and energy and must be some kind of matter or energy?

... to be created, when the universe DID need to be created?

... when:

- he was raised Catholic

- spoke publicly of the (Aryan) Christ

- regarded the spiritual forces of Christianity to be indispensable

- himself wrote of "the will of eternal Providence" and people had the duty to "fulfill God's will"

- advocated "Positive Christianity" and an Active Creator

- OPPOSED State Atheism

- opposed other Nazi officials by advocating Christianity over worship of Germanic gods?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolf_Hitler%27s_reli...

... is a Christian nation, when the Treaty of Peace and Friendship at Tripoli, 1796, ratified by the United States Congress in 1797, says:

"... the government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian Religion ..."?

- http://avalon.law.yale.edu/18th_century/bar1796t.a...

(And you don't get to argue that Barlow's translation is incorrect, as it's the one submitted to the Senate, ratified by Congress and accepted by vote *unanimously*.)

... or at least they BELIEVE or THINK or KNOW or whatever, that there is no God. I'm sure most people are inserting their own word there now.

On a casual reading of this section, there appear to be a lot of Christian respondents who say "oh, atheists know there's a God, they just deny it, or they don't WANT there to be a God".

Just for once, please, don't preach at me. Don't tell me we're trying to hide from our sins, or whatever.

(Buddy R and Fireball... if just for once, please I'm begging, just once you could actually answer the question and not just tell us how much you love God and how powerful he is and how you'll never change your minds and how we're going to hell and how you're so blessed...)

Here's the question: what would you do if the atheists WERE right?

If it could actually be proven that there was no God? Or Allah? Or Vishnu? Or Zeus or Odin or Anu or Enki or Earth Spirit or Jade Emperor or the Pure Ones or Cycle of Samsara or Indra or Agni or whatever?

What would you do if our only hopes of not being alone in this universe were to:

- meet aliens

- spread out into the universe ourselves

- love each other as we are here and now?

... recommends Christians should ignore, disrespect or mock atheists (YouTube link: http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=brBqkmzN4js ).

According to the same clip, atheists can't tell Christians "thou shalt not steal", implying it's okay for Christians to steal from atheists.

Christians who DON'T agree:

- please, could you be as loud as these other Christians and tell them that they're not behaving in a "Christian" way?

- Couldn't you (or your priests or reverends) convince or instruct or shame them into behaving the way your ethical code and God says they should?

Christians who DO agree, please explain:

- why should we respect and not mock you.

- why is it we can't tell you to abide by your own rules - the rules handed to you by your GOD?

include or not include "optional freedom FROM religion"?

And, why?

... have you found to teach, demonstrate, illustrate, show theists or spiritualists that something they believe might be wrong?

Or, have you never done so? Tried but failed?

I was just reading another Question (at http://tinyurl.com/6draad ) and saw a response that read as follows:

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You are referring to faux Christians not all Christians. True Christians understand that "in my father's house there are many windows" means there are many true paths to God.

Please don't lump us all together!

=====

This leads to reading up on stuff like the "No True Christian would..." fallacy, better known as the "No True Scotsman" fallacy ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman ).

So that we can write better questions in future:

1) please characterise and define "a true Christian". Specifically...

2) What is it beyond "believing in and accepting Christ as the Son of God and your personal saviour"?

3) Bonus question: wasn't the quote supposed to be John 14:2: "In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you"? Searching the Bible Gateway for "many windows" returns no hits.

(Sorry again atheists, this is another one meant just for the theists, please.)

A lot of inaccurate, false claims about Evolution come up as Answers here on Y!A. Things like:

- do you really believe we descended from monkeys?

- how come we haven't evolved lasers from eyes?

- if we evolved from monkeys, why are there still monkeys?

- Evolution is "just a theory", it hasn't ever been seen.

- if Evolution is true, where's the crocoduck?

- Evolution is a religion, Darwin is its Jesus, Dawkins is its prophet...

... the problem is, not a one of those is TRULY any part of the actual study of Evolution.

Not to mention: there are Christians who see Evolution as a method used by God to create more species from the original Kinds.

So, please: what is it you need to see or know? What is it, what questions YOU would ask in order to stop seeing Evolution as some kind of impossible enemy?

And why can't the GOOD Christians do something ABOUT them BEFORE they bring down the reputations of the good ones?

This is not (just) a rant, this is a SERIOUS QUESTION and a request for action from Good Christians.

Seriously, good Christians... don't you feel bad about being tarred with the brushes of your less intelligent, more intolerant siblings in Christ?

Yahoo user Marcus K had a question at http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=200812... ... and by the way, now owes somebody 10 points and an apology:

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Why is everything on Earth to human scale? Why is there just enough gravity on earth to keep us from being squashed like bugs? Is this really just "coincidence"? Why has EVERYTHING in nature, no matter how chaotic to the naked eye, has been proven to have order, or a pattern to it. Why is it that water freezes differently from other fluids (it gets less dense), and that it is critical for our very survival? Why don't trees just become pulp, a sappy mess when we cut them down? Why do they remain intact as something we can use for fire, shelter, build houses, make paper, etc? Is it just "coincidence" that atoms stay together (the same charges)?# How is it that the ancient Bible is consistent with astronomy? The Bible frequently refers to the great number of stars in the heavens. How is it that the ancient Bible describes the circulation of the atmosphere? How is it that the ancient Bible includes some principles of fluid dynamics?How is it that the ancient Bible includes reasonably complete descriptions of the hydrologic cycle? If you can successfully give a good argument for at least 75% of the questions, I'll chuckle, but if you can answer them all, well 10pts and I'll tell you to have a coke and a smile :)

Aww what's the matter God bashers, your brain hurts because you actually have to think instead of copy and pasting on websites all the time?

Okay I AM CHRISTIAN just don't like all the cheesy one liners trying to counsel me

Yes Paul B, EVERYTHING IN NATURE NUMBNUTS

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My answer was as follows, BEFORE the Question was deleted:

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Ants and elephants are not to human scale.

If there was "more gravity", we would have been "squashed" before we could have developed.

No it's not coincidence. Biology is based on the rules of chemistry. Chemistry is based on the rules of Physics. One set of Physical Rules underlying everything means one tendency of development with some room for variation.

Not everything in nature has been proven to have order. Quantum mechanical-scale objects or the action of radioactivity has been shown to be purely random. A large enough collection of randomness, though, tends to a particular pattern. It's called "Chaos Mathematics" and was the flavour of popular study in the 80s. Get a pair of dice, throw them, add the numbers, write them down. Do it a thousand times, draw the results on a graph. You'll see a shape called a "bell curve".

Every single chemical has a freezing point. Water tends to freeze into a regular, crystalline pattern. The interactions of atoms at that scale in that pattern push each other away; that causes the expansion. It happens to be made of one of the most common chemical elements in the universe; any creature that was going to evolve in the universe, with a better chance of survival, would depend on a COMMON element rather than a RARE element.

Trees are composed of FIBRES; much like long-chain polymers. They maintain a structure composed into solid arrangements.

Do you mean one atom staying together? That's the action of particles in the nucleus called Gluons, holding together positive charge Protons and neutral charge Neutrons.

Do you mean several atoms staying together as molecules? Some atoms stay together, some don't. It depends on whether there's a matching number of free, available negative charge Electrons for connecting to other atoms. Oxygen, for example, has two free slots. Hydrogen atoms have one each. That's why two hydrogen atoms attach to one oxygen atom to form Dihydrogen Oxide - water. It's not coincidence. If the atoms didn't match up, they wouldn't stay together and you'd never SEE them together. That's like asking why you never see two north-poles-of-magnets sticking together in nature and why you only see a north-south arrangement.

The Bible is NOT consistent with astronomy. The book of Genesis says that the moon is a SOURCE of light when it's not; it's a REFLECTOR. And any person who isn't blind can step outside and see a great number of stars in the heavens.

Anyone can step outside and see which way the wind moves and then write it down. Now we do it with satellites from space. A few hundred years ago we did it with light wooden paddles attached loosely to a rotating pole.

The bible's Book of Job "describes" TWO LINES of fluid dynamics: saying nothing more than that God established the FORCE of the wind (without calling it a FLUID) and that the waters wer

"Everyone has the right to their belief"

versus

"Everyone has the right to their *informed or provable* belief".

For example: "I have every right to believe that the Tooth Fairy's Dark Sister, the Ganglion Fairy, needs my help to icepick a passageway to her target". Does *anyone* have a right to believe that?

Compare, contrast and discuss.