why beleive??

Well, I agree with you to a point, so better wo find someone to debate with that has a stronger opinion against yours :-) Try the Christian Chat Rooms on chat.yahoo.com - you WILL find people in there to have a really loud debate with about this. Just don't expect any real answers. Just lots of praying and bible verses and counter-arguments like "can you see the wind? No? Well it's there. And so is God. Case closed."

Ok! You have to understand that the presence of God can not be proved. But there is one more thing. Even the absence of God can not be proved.

There are two Possibilities. Whether there is a God (or Gods) or there isn't any. But before considering both the possibilities, I want to present some phenomenas that scientifically prove the lack of intelligence of human being and presence of an unknown force.

Dreams: According to Science, Mental Science and Psychology, dreams are just the illusions that come into mind based on what a person see or even think in the whole day. Those are just repetition of the images a person makes in his mind. But more than 70% of population of the world agrees (disregarding the religion) that dreams have some kind of a relation with future. A number of people have got dreams in which they saw future or something regarding future. Dream is a phenomenon no one has understood. (And I believe it is practically impossible to even find in future.) This proves that man is still not intelligent and advanced enough that he thinks.

Universe: All the stars in the universe are Suns. They all have planets. Some stars are so big that they have 1000s of planets revolving around them. Why stars look so small? Because they are very far from us. You know the huge Sun that is very close to us. Earth is one of the planet that revolves around this sun. You can understand distance between those stars and us by the light and size we can see. The only thing science have studied yet has made us strong enough to reach the moon (which is a planet that revolves around the Earth). Moon is the closest and smallest plannet closer to the earth but it is not one of the planets that revolve around the Sun. Now you can understand the whole size of the universe. So, whatever astronomical science we have studied yet is closest to zero as compare to the size of the universe. A lot of theories of science has been changed or cancelled in last since the beginning of the scientific research. We shouldn't just rely on science to make a belief.

Reproduction: Everyone knows that science have got enough information how a child is borned. Even we have found ways to give birth to a child without a female womb (Test Tube babies and Clones, in animals). But there is one thing science declares that a child's birth is practically impossible if there isn't an unseen force. When a woman gets pregnant, the male sperm enters into the womb after being mixtured with female sperm. Then the zygote or embryo is developed. The combination of male sperm with female sperm initiates a chemical reaction. This chemical reaction is random. But it starts building a very sophisticated body. According to the rules of Chemistry, a chemical reaction can never produce a physically accurate body. But this happens all the time. Some times there is a boy with all the characteristics of male, and sometimes there is a girl with all the characteristics of a female. The body of the mother doesn't participate in the chemical reaction. All it does is to provide nutrients and give nourishment after the completion of this chemical reaction. "There is an outside force which is beyond our knowledge in the child birth."

Body: Try to understand the sophistication of a human body. There is a great difference between a Man and a Woman. And people know that. But even then there are a few things that shouldn't be scientifically different between the bodies of a man and a woman. There are 2 examples; beard and mustache. If you study, most of the women in the world don't get hairs where beard and mustache is present in a man. This is not because they use some kind of a cream or ointment. This is like that since the begining. Some women do but there is a very low percentage of that. There is no scientific reason for a man to have an ability to grow beard and mustache and an inability for the woman.

I don't remember right now but I would probably give you some more phenomenas that don't have a solution but to believe the presence of an external force. Don't let this debate ends. Or if you have to do it, just send me an email, so that I can help you directly.

Now, if we are not intelligent enough, if we can't rely on the science that hasn't taught us yet about the universe and life. There is a lot more to come. But may be that need about a 1000 more years to prove the existence of God by scientific way.

Now we consider both the possibilities:

1. There is no God (as you believe).

I am a Muslim. And if there is no God, I don't lose any thing. Because I live according to the teachings (I believe) of the God. I would probably spend (you would say waste) a part of my life for some religious acts. But then what, these actions give me satisfaction and people do things to give them satisfactions no matter whether they are some religious, entertaining, or some other kind of acts. Some people even do some weird kind of jobs to have satisfaction. So practically I don't lose any thing.

2. If there is a God:

Now think about that. If there is a God, and you never tried to even find it. And after the death you know that you were wrong, you would be punished for that. But I won't. But then you won't be able to do any thing.

Please don't just believe there is no God. Instead try to research whether there is a God or not. And if there is a God then Who is He.

Being a Muslim I would recommend you a book named "The Bible, The Quran and Science" by Maurice Bauchle. This is your option to study this book or consult a Christian Philosopher. But there is something intrusting about this book. This book was written by Mr. Maurice Bauchle in 1972, a well known scientist of that time in France. When Mr. Maurice Bauchle wrote this book he was a Christian. But He converted to Islam just after reading his own book.

I will try my best to help you as much as I can.

Religion has nothing to do with G-d. The Mystery is always found by going within to find Truth, not by looking toward an outside source for it.

It is far better, imo, to not believe in anything until you experience it firsthand. When you experience G-d, S/He/It will in no way resemble the puny minded religious concepts you've been unfortunately exposed to.

Mystery is beyond all concepts, and when it is tasted, inner transformation ALWAYS accompanies the experience....and when that happens it's all the 'proof' you'll ever need. But without experiencing it firsthand, belief in it is foolish and as you point out, a balm for the fear of death.

Also, I believe an atheist can be more spiritual (meaning pro-inner development) than most so called Christians... or other blind followers of religions. As long as you are developing the higher human attributes in yourself --- such as compassion, kindness, clarity, honesty and so on --- then you are living a 'spiritual life' (pro-development) and in doing so will some day crash into the Mystery firsthand. The Mystery will reveal Him/Herself/Itself (beyond all concepts) when YOU have unraveled your egoic self to the needed transparency for recieving the 'Mind of G-d'; multidimensional sight, direct revelation, and the 'new eyes' that can peer into the Mystery before physically dying. It'll rip your entire life apart to witness the Mystery firsthand. It will be a dying process of your ego and that is just as painful and difficult as facing physical death. It's not for the timid...and not advisable unless complete surrender of the ego is your intention. In fact opening that 'keg of worms' before you're ready to surrender to egoic death can lead to many years of spiritual depression and resistance.

Religions do not encourage inner transformation and development. To do so would mean the death of the religion. Most Christians, imo, follow Anti-Christ teachings; the proof being that the teachings are anti-development. Christ = development. No development no Christ! The more discerning of us can smell the rotten fruit of so called Christianity (or whatever religion), but then unfortunately toss the baby with the bath water. I was an Atheist for this very same reason -- because the Truth was so obviously NOT found in religion. But in my dedication to inner development and inner peace, I found what I wasn't even looking for, and let me just say: IT is NOTHING like the religions make IT out to be!

IT is an experience of such radical Beauty that the idea of debating IT or arguing about IT becomes completely unattractive and unnecessary. Nothing I tell you can possibly convince you. Only your own experience would convince you, and I have no control over that! No, I can't tell you what to believe, only to keep focusing on developing into the best you can be and to keep an inwardly open mind. Meaning don't lose your discernment or give in to blind faith. Trust ONLY in your personal experience in your journey of inner development.

Peace out

dude, I'm not some educated person or anything and I'm not here to debate, I'm 17 I was born a Christian but was always skeptical, Until recently I've decided to have faith, I feel God's presence when I pray, he always gives me an answer to my requests, when I'm asking for help I feel a comforting feeling that makes me feel high I don't know how to explain it but when I finally started having faith in him and talking to him he has answered everthing. It's something you have to debate with yourself by having faith, praying, reading the Bible and eventually praising God. debating with others will be a waste of your time.

No. I am on your side. It is hard to find an educated person to debate you on this. Last time I asked these people to debate me I got one taker. Then she flaked out before the debate. I currently have another fish on the hook. I can't wait to see him squirm.

I just finished a great book called "Dinner with a Perfect Stranger". I highly recommend it if you are looking for things to make sense in a logical manner.

It's a fairly short book. Tell me what you think about it.

:)

k gud point and i agree with u, then what made them to succed in there atempts(the ppl who have created the religions), don't u feel something/some 1 is helping u in ur attempts and stoping u doing from someting, there should be something behind all these ?? ... later

what made you stop believing?

why are you now worried about your state such that you need a debate to help you make the right decision.

God gave you power to choose to do what is right or wrong.

Goodluck!

Seems like you have your thinking cap on. Look at the conclusions these people came to. They certainly have their thinking caps on.

Okay.