What makes you think your opinions concerning God are worth voicing? Before you answer, pls read all!?

Mathematics is a science of measurement. And more importantly, the entire memory bank, logic, reasoning, understanding proof, theories etc are based on inputs from the sense organs, and dissected by logical mind. Good to use and understand the things we see, feel, touch, hear and taste etc. But what about a possibility of experience beyond sense organs, beyond the two dimensions of time and space? Anybody with an open mind ready to look into these possibilities without blind belief or a disbelief, and a deep sense of involvement does make it. It is only a question of time(again a dimension created by the limited mind) ! And the time is inversely proportional to the intensity of the 'seeking' individual ! Good luck. And by the way, the question is well appreciated. It does seem to come from a genuinely interested person with an open mind. Best wishes.

Your question is good and as it is presented it seems like a very good argument. However I must ask one question. Is it proper for the cart to be pushed by the horse or should the cart be pulled by the horse to achieve the best results?

I ask this question for I do perceive that you rank one of the sciences above the book that is the very basis for all the sciences. Records prove that the Bible was first and then came the science books based upon the principles recorded in the Bible eventhough most do fail to recognize this fact.

To add to my question is it the bible in your opinion that is written because of the science of mathematics or is it mathematics as a science is because of the Bible principles first? The Bible talks of the very source of knowledge and wisdom and mathematics is only one finite dot in the entire field of knowledge and wisdom. Thus again I ask is it math or the Bbile that should be the mover or cart puller. Should one turn to mathematics for all the answers or to the Bible?

Sciences are based upon input and advancement in knowledge and wisdom where Bible truths are understood in pure simplicity by pure innate nature by design. A small child can understand the Bible principles and give a pure answer without doubt in innocence while a highly trained scientist can only say, "I have learned so much about my field I am truly confused because I am not sure anymore." Why is that?

In my opinion it is because too many want the horse to push the cart instead of letting the horse pull the cart. Now what is your opinion?

You give that some thought and do smile while doing it. That way maybe you can have a good day and enjoy the idea of taking a different view for a change.

Your generalizations about mathematicians and their reasoning's behind various conjectures cannot be proved because it is literally impossible that you have met every single one...good or bad. This is simply your "opinion". As far as theists, atheists and agnostics...as well, you have not met every single one so how could you possibly deduce that they are whimsically staunch in their beliefs in spite of being light on proof one way or another and should land somewhere in the middle just for the sake of what you have contrived as logic. All things are relevant from the perspective they are viewed from. Mathematics deals with infinite numbers and their formulas and theories (or proofs)...but down to the simplest terms...facts are facts...2+2=4 and so on up to the most complex equation yet to be realized by any brain on the planet. Well, the same could be said for anyone's belief system. Atheists have the facts they need to deduce in their own minds and hearts that there is no God. While theists have the facts they need to deem that there is one..or more. Agnostics don't know because in their mind..all the facts are not in...and until every given available piece of evidence is provided the jury is still out deliberating. That's fine. However, though there might be an absolute imperical truth, one way or another...this subject deals with ones own mind...thought, feeling, ideals, insights and/or lack thereof and has no place in the world of logical reasoning. Logic never got anyone terribly far in this world and even with Mr. Spock..he was only ever second in command. Live long and prosper! Love in Christ, ~J~ <><

Listen, I completely understand what you are saying here. And you make a good argument. I also understand the spiritual implications of mathematics, and how math can seem to be an attractive way of finding truth.

But please consider your forum. This is a question and answer forum. Questions and answers. How boring would it be if the answer to every question with no computer-verifiable answer was simply "I do not know at this point in time" or "That remains to be seen" or something similar?

Where Mathematics falls short human intuition and perception take over. It keeps life interesting. Mathematics doesn't allow for intuition or perception. Why do you think most pupils find math so darn boring? Obviously you have the gift; that allows you to enjoy the mundane, but most people need more excitement, more interaction. I am thankful we don't see the world like robots or computers.

You DEFINITELY have one thing correct though; WAY too many people get on here and on other forums and express opinions based on foolishness or naivety, rather than education and experience.

Thank You for this great question

But as a Muslim I must tell you that Islam is the only religion that has proof ....its not built only on faith like other religions ....in the Quraan God shows us exactly how the baby is created in his first days till he comes out to life God also tell us about the finger prints in everyone hands and how it is so unique and much much more things that was only proved scientifically from about 200 years and of course the Quraan is 1400 years old

here are some famous western scientists talking about the Quraan and how they are 100% sure it is from God

http://www.alhakekah.com/aduio/89.htm

I'll give you some credit on your comment. I always had doubts about the existence of god, I only said I believed because it was expected of me since everyone I knew was catholic or religious. I did have some "faith" but I realized that god is not real and that religion despite what people claim about it actually has done more harm onto society. MOST wars have been started and fought in the name of religion and god. Most people have been killed in the name of god-- christian missionaries killing native American Indians for not converting comes to mind..

Religion has also been and is used to hinder progress in science.. the catholic church imprisoned Galileo for stating the earth revolved around the sun.. nearly all religious denominations are against stem cell research. People use the bible to convince people to blindly follow their ideology or to condition people to blindly follow and believe whatever they say, pat robertson, david koresh and jim jones comes to mind..

I take it that you want everyone; mainly non-believers to still hold to the belief that "god" exists for there is some slight possiblity that he is real.

I stand by my choice that he is not real and religion is to dangerous for society.

The fact that I've placed my faith in Jesus Christ. He is "the way. the TRUTH, and the life." If I really believe that Jesus was who He claimed to be, the Son of God, then I am no longer unsure of "right vs wrong". Your question implies that there are no religious absolutes.. however, by faith I am sure that Jesus Christ is that absolute. The Christian faith is not simply a subjective exercise....rather, it is based upon the objective facts of history.

Right, good argument! No truth is full and since we are humans, then, by default, our knowledge is limited.

So ...

* who has unlimited knowledge?

* wo will resolve all disagreements eventually?

* who will reward those who used their limited reasoning to reach the unltimate truth and punish those who denied it?

May Allah guide us all to the ultimate truth ... Himself

Fortunately, every religious theory CAN be proved. Unfortunately, the only way to prove any of them is to die, but then of course, you can't get published.

-SD-

I believe that anything is possible vrs reasonable doubts....