Why can't you be a 'Good Turk' and also believe that the Armenian genocide happened?

Unfortunately, as Turkish people, we can not offend the motherland. Turkish people are good people. We have a rotten history of changing truth. If laws would allow freedom of speech we can read and write freely. We will go to jail because if we say something that insults are country we can go to jail.

Ataturk made many great changes in our land but he covered up many other things as well. One of them being the topic of your question.

Imagine you grow up all your life and know Turkish friends and family in this day and age and someone tells you that our people comitted mass murder (genocide)! What a shock to the system. You will run down the street and ask your father and grandfather, "what did you do". Why would he want to admit it to you. Like Ataturk, our grandfather and fathers washed their hands clean of the blood as Ataturk gave them to chance to start all over again. We did not have to worry about that, it was taken care of and done with. Now we will rewrite what we need. Ataturk said to take what you need from history. That is what he did. School books do not talk about genocide.

To this day the word Armenian is considered to be Back Stabber in Turkey. One paragraph in books said this for decades as to the Armenians of 1915. Nothing more or less. To call someone Armenian in Turkey is worse then calling someone a dog to this day.

Can you see that is what you are dealing with. We just got hit with a big stick in the stomach. How can we believe this is true.

Logically I have to look at many other things in the world.

I believe the reality is that to be patriotic and believe the genocide took place is easy but the society that Turkish people live in does not allow it. There are too many laws.

Imagine this...the journalist and intellectuals of Turkey always say "the supposed genocide" when dealing with this issue. Why? Because if they said it any other way they will go to jail or get hunt down by the Grey Wolves. When the media in Turkey is breathing this atmosphere created laws that allow them not to speak freely what will happen to the masses. Couple all this with what I said earlier about Ataturk changing how life in Turkey was changed by him then you got a boiling pot of not NON BELIEVERS but Masses that just do not know.

To answer your question, the laws of the land must change as far as freedom of speech AND freedom of thought. At that point we can become patriotic. For Turkish people to be true Turkish patriots, we must be able to speak freely AND think freely. We can not think if we have someone, big brother (government laws, extremist), breathing down your back saying "if you write this you will be killed". So, it is a problem in society that has been created.

Turkis people can not be patriotic and say these things you say. If the laws change in our country, it is the duty of Turkish people to do so and be patriotic. It is the duty to question our fathers and their fathers acts. It is the duty and right of all Turks to freely think for once and for all. It would then be UNpatriotic to do otherwise.

They think that speaking of the genocide is the reason for enmity among us (Armenians and Turks). It's completely wrong, but the way Turkish government is following makes that enmity deeper.

The problem is not only on the "genocide" subject, but on the whole "Turkish history". You can not even tell them about facts of the Ottoman empire.

When you say that was a cruel or backward government, they will call you traitor, lier, enemy and so...

What do they learn in school? That has been always interested me. I am really interested what they learn about their history.

They are completely blind about their past, and that is the main problem.

The genocide has happened about a century ago, organized and done by the crazy party, "Ittihad ve taragi" (union and progress). Speaking of that doesn't mean insulting the current government or the people, this is really silly to think this way.

It was not realized and punished at the time, so Hitler said : "...after all, who speaks of the Armenians?"

We want justice and peace in the world, we want this old enmity be resolved and that is not possible without justice.

Turkey can not hide that fact for ever, its impossible, and it is better for Turkey to be logical, open eyes and look at the past.

Nearly all Turks think that Ottoman empire leaders and Ataturk they were all good people, from the heavens!

The smallest criticizing you do, you will be called enemy!

The problem is ultra-nationalism.

I do not have any idea about good Turk.

There is not any armenian horror story here. It is something invented by armenians. Armenians put themselves in air. This is their culture. They never accept they were minorities in Seljukid and Ottoman Empires, then Russian Empire, and USSR. Armenian opinion leaders still in the same way to lead their people for great armenia, superior race. Look at the end result. I have over 1000 years of my family's registered history in Anatolia. They never met with armenians. Armenians lived in a small area in Eastern anataolia in Ottoman's great country covering eastern europe, anatolia, meddle east, north africa.

Unfortunately some bad things happened during that time but it was war time.Turkish side never denies what happened and opens the war archives which says somewhere between 200-300 thousand Armenians were died during the relocation.Armenian side refuses to open the archives and says 1,5 million Armenians were killed systematicly but never mention about what happened to the Armenian population in Istanbul or the other major cities of the empire.They don't want to answer how 1,5 million can be killed while whole Armenian population in the empire was 1 million.They don't want the world to know that who started the conflict or what would be the punishment of betrayel during the time period.On the other hand Ottoman empire was not alone in the 1st WW,nothing could be found in the German archives,or British or French not even in the Russian.

All we can say now is it was a sad occasion,unfortunately happened but it can not called genocide it was only one of the sad,blody massacres of the 1st WW.

I think this disagreement should be solved by a football match between the national teams of Turkey and Armenia. The winner will conclude whether Turkish or Armenian is the right.

And I really wonder why the talk about something if really happened was in 1890-1915. How many years had passed for this? and we are talking about it now. Why we don't talk about things to be happened in the year 2007 by the USA, UK and other supporting wars to kill thousands of helpless people for no reason?

your way of asking your question not a way to

agreee, not a way to understand

JUST yOU IGNORE

you do nothing except ignoring

do you know what today go infront of the mirror and ask yourself

who am i to judge people and their history?Who am İ ?

Do i really read books do i have a Turk friend at all to understand

Nooo ,during years we had Armenian friends,Jew friends

The other Ottomans(İ name Armenians,jews,Turks,Arabs whoever lived in Ottoman as OttOMAns)we talked with them we argued with them but never İgNORED

nOne of us ignored each ,Because we all knew that İgnoring is just a way to express your weakness

THAT IS ALL

My answer has nothing specific to do with Turkey or Armenia.

Bottom line, if you are in a group and verbalize a different opinion you are likely to be ostracized.

Ironically, the more empirical evidence to support our opinion you have relative to the group opinion, the more vociferous and even violent the reaction would be.

This is known as GROUP THINK and it is a ubiquitous and particular insidious form of human behavior.

Classic examples of GROUP THINK are:

* Failure of Bay of Pigs Invasion

* The dot com explosion and subsequent implosion

* Failure to recognize 9/11 early warning signs

* Nazi Germany

* Post-9/11 US Terrorism Policy

In short, under group think powerful and influential members of a group will promulgate information as if it were fact when indeed it is false. The leaders and their minions use pressure techniques to get others to beleive or at least express the false information.

Those who will not succumb to the pressure or present evidence to the contrary will eventually be eliminated from the group.

Unfortunately, Group Think is pervasssive and their is very little an individual can do to counteract it.

My personal involvement has led me to this conclusion.

Those groups that demonstrate Group Think behavior should be avoided if at all possible.

It is funny to empirically prove that a group is involved in Group Think behavior, however. This can often be done in a business situation where the Group Think behavior creates a legal liability for damages.........

Simply document the behavior and outline the consequences.

Then make sure your documentation comes to light during litigation.

There is nothing more satisfying than taking treble damages from some @$$hole who insisted he or she was right in the face of overwhleming evidence to the contrary!

this is for all of u who think the armenian genocide didnt happen...a few facts.

1) if it didnt happen why do they assasin every armenian in turkey that believes. ie hrant dink

2) persidents of the us have admitted to not acceptiing it because of turkey being a valuable allie.

3)yes armenians did kill some turks but as a position in world war not to exterminate them.

4)there are diarys from british residents in armenia that have seen these acts

5)Most important ther are survivors of the genocide today that

have living prooof!!!!!!!!!!!!

6) if it didnt happen then how did millions of family members disappear.why is it that are armenians are spreaded around the world.

turks are just greeddy because if they admit something against humanity they will have to give the land they stole from armenia(proof from old maps) and pay money for damages.

its not that they dont believe its if they do BIG consequences...so they dont want to believe

We Americans are the same. If you admit to any wrong Americans ever did, some people accuse you of being a bad American--'Blame America First', 'Why do you hate America?'

The Armenian genocide was a terrible thing. It's understandable that a lot of Turkish people would really like to believe it never happened. Certain leaders -tell- them it never happened, so they believe it because they want to.

But you can admit that your country did bad things without hating your country. I love the USA but we had slavery for hundreds of years, we killed most of the people who lived here before we arrived. We have gotten into unnecessary wars around the world and killed a lot of people and caused a lot of misery. I think I can admit these things and still be a faithful American.

Really, if you want to known the truth , please read these sources!

"I witnessed and lived through 1917-1918"

author:Lt.col TVerdohlebof

-Russian commander of the 2.armenian-russian fortress artillery regionent.

<http://www.divshare.com/download/358325-22b%20%3E

http://www.divshare.com/download/358325-22b

Find out what Armenian Premier Senin Ovanes Kacaznuni said in 1923 Dashnak Party

Conference in Bucharest-Romania, about Armenian treachery. Available from

iletisim@kaynakyayinlari.com ISBN 975-343-438-3 or from TPK enquiries@tpk.org.uk

You may peruse www.tallarmeniantale.com <http://www.tallarmeniantale.com/%3E , by

author Holdwater & http://www.eraren.org/bilgibankasi/en/index.htm The “Armenian

Research” Foundation

Read on internet www.tallarmeniantale.com/c-f-dixon-BOOK.htm, written by a British

officer in 1916 – the portrayal of Anatolian Armenian character

Examine Guenter Lewy's "The Armenian Massacres in Turkey, A Disputed Genocide"

ISBN-13:978-0-87480-849-0 available on Amazon.com (Jewish author from USA)

Salahi Sonyel's "The Turco-Armenian Imbroglio" ISBN-0-9504886-6-6, available at

Cyprus Turkish Association 0207 437 4940 kibristc@btconnect.com (Cypriot Turk

author)

films to watch are:

"The Armenian Revolt 1894-1920" documentary DVD by Third Coast Films, P.O. Box 664,

Clarion, PA 16214, USA, info@thirdcoastfilms.com (by an American Director) This is

a MUST !!

&

"Sari Gelin' documentary DVD through www.sarigelinbelgeseli.com

<http://www.sarigelinbelgeseli.com/%3E info@sarigelinbelgeseli.com (maybe available

on eBay) (by a Turkish Director)

have a look at www.armenians-1915.blogspot.com

<http://www.armenians-1915.blogspot.com/%3E by Turkish Armenians (including free

downloadable books and automatic translation of site text into several languages),

Read Prof. Turkkaya Ataov's WHAT HAPPENED TO OTTOMAN ARMENIANS?

ISBN 1=4243=1004-0 (obtainable from ssaya@superonline.com), (Turkish author)

"MYTH OF TERROR' by late Erich Feigl (1986)Zeitgeschichte/Bucherdienst Austria

(Austrian Author) which contains the signatures of 63 foreign Academics refuting the

Armenian claims

http://www.tallarmeniantale.com/terrorism-breakdow...

for Armenian terrorism against Turks.. why Armenians are not talking about their

terrorists?

an interesting read (in 3 languages) of memoirs of a Russian Officer on Armenians at

http://www.tsk.mil.tr/ermeni_sorunu/kitap.htm (click on the book for downloading) or

access it and others at

http://www.tsk.mil.tr/eng/ermeni_sorunu_salonu/arm... (from

Turkish Military archives reputed to be richest on this issue)

There are also several powerful books on this subject by the American author

Justin McCarthy

http://homepages.cae.wisc.edu/~dwilson/Armenia/mcc...

<http://homepages.cae.wisc.edu/%7Edwilson/Armenia/m...

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