MORMONS and JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES can you explain this?

A few bible translations make it seems as though Titus 2:13 is referring to a single person Jesus as both "God" and "Savior" (for example, the questioner seems to quote "An American Translation").

Yet, invariably these same translations clearly show God the Father to be a distinct person from Jesus the Son (just a page or two earlier at Titus 1:4).

http://watchtower.co.uk/e/ti/index.htm?article=art...

You got some good answers from few people above. Now why don't you ask yourself these questions?

Who created God the Father? Who created Jesus Christ, the son of God? What's the difference between God and Jesus?

God the Father = Jehovah

The Son of God = Jesus Christ

To time indefinite the Father has only one name, Jehovah. The name Jehovah means "I SHALL PROVE TO BE WHAT I SHALL PROVE TO BE" (some translations may rendered "I AM THAT I AM") stated in Exodus 3:14-15. Jehovah God is not a God of confusion but of order. (Ge 1:16-18; 2:10; Ec 1:5-7; Jer 31:35, 36; 1Co 14:33) He would not say that He will be called Jehovah forever and then change His name to Jesus and called himself the son of God (the Son of Himself?).

Think about it. If Jesus is God the Father himself, why would he called himself a creation by himself as the firstborn stated in Col 1:15-16?

Why would God himself produced himself and BECOME a master worker? Wasn't He already the grand master? (Proverbs 8:22-30) If Jesus is God the Father, why would he need to receive power and authority from someone? Wasn't he already have all the power and authority? (Matt 28:18) Well, it is clearly identified that Jesus is not God the Father but the Son of God (two different beings). Jesus is a god because he is a spirit creature but he is never God the Father (Jehovah God).

God can not and will not lie. It is not His nature.

God does not confuse people. It is human doing all the confusion (with the help of the wicked spirits - Satan and his demons).

No one created God the Father (Jehovah).

Jesus was created by God.

Without Jesus, there's always be Jehovah God.

Without Jehovah God, there's no Jesus or the angels and the universe.

You missed a word in your quote.

Titus 2:13, Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and OUR Savior Jesus Christ;

To me that means 2 seperate individuals. Jesus may be a god (notice small g) but there is only one God and His son is my savior Jesus Christ. Even Jesus worshiped God, the Father.

Oh and I use the King James Version of the bible. There are also many verses in the entire bible that prove to me that they are seperate. That and prayer and personal revelation.

(Titus 2:13) 13 while we wait for the happy hope and glorious manifestation of the great God and of [the] Savior of us, Christ Jesus,

It sounds too much like two different persons being talked about here to me to be a scripture that tries to back up a trinity belief out of the Bible. True, your Bible does confuse the issue, but it still sounds like two persons.

There are just so many scriptures that back up the belief that Jesus was created by his Father Jehovah.

Maybe if you can take the time to read this article it might help you to see that there is just too much pointing away from the trinity.

http://www.watchtower.org/library/ti/article_03.ht...

With much love for fellow man I hope you will take the time to read this and be free of this ungodly doctrine. Please read so you can at least say you know what you are not agreeing with.

I can tell you what I believe - God the Father, our Heavenly Father is a different person/being than Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ is the SON of God, the Only Begotten in the flesh and was the firstborn in the spirit world.

We know Jesus Christ is King of Kings and Lord of Lords...He is the Great Redeemer, Savior of Mankind. BUT we know He is also under the direction of God, our Heavenly Father, and HE is the Supreme Creator, for He created all of us - including Jesus Christ.

Jesus Christ has many names...God, Jehovah, Savior, Comforter, King...

The trinity doctrine is taught in some Christian sects but not all. It is a matter of how they interpret the scriptures, some sects point to scriptures that they say show evidence of the Trinity and other sects point to scriptures that they say show evidence against it. For example, when Jesus is on the cross and says "Lord, why has thou forsaken me" some sects interpret that as meaning they are two beings- because why would he be talking to himself? There are also scriptures that support it like the one you cited. But its really just a difference of opinion

to Bubblehead: The trinity is not the same as the Godhead. The trinity means that God, the son, and the Holy Spirit are one being. The Godhead is the belief that God, the son and the Holy Spirit are three seperate beings. They work together, but they are seperate

I do not know where this crazy idea came from, but let be give you a quote from the title page of the Book of Mormon that states what our view on Christ is very well.

"Which is to show unto the remnant of the House of Israel what great things the Lord hath done for their fathers; and that they may know the covenants of the Lord, that they are not cast off forever—And also to the convincing of the Jew and Gentile that JESUS is the CHRIST, the ETERNAL God, manifesting himself unto all nations—And now, if there are faults they are the mistakes of men; wherefore, condemn not the things of God, that ye may be found spotless at the judgment-seat of Christ."

Are there any more weird questions based off of biased information that I can attempt to clear up or can I just recommend that you find a different source for your information about Latter-day Saints?

I do not know about the Jehovah's Witnesses but if your information about us is anything to go by then I would be double or triple checking your sources on that one as well.

I am one of Jehovah's Witnesses. From reading the Bible I have found that Christ is the son of God, as have those of other faiths.

One thing that sticks in my mind is the sacrificial death of Christ. Consider, the Bible tells us, God cannot lie. The Bible also teaches us that the dead are conscious of nothing. According to this, then it seems impossible that Jesus could be God. Consider, Jesus was dead. For this to be true, he was conscious of nothing. As I understand it the Almighty cannot die. Also he was resurrected, which means either he brought himself back to life, which would mean he wasn't truly dead, and was in fact lying, which is impossible, or someone else brought him back.

This is just one example, hope it helps.

The way I read it is that the verse is talking about the glorious appearing of our great God and (speaking about a different person) Saviour, Jesus Christ.

This would be in harmony with the rest of the Bible.

There are different translations of the Bible. The one that's quoted above sounds similar to the "Revised Standard Version". The "New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures" reads: “while we wait for the happy hope and glorious manifestation of the great God and of the Savior of us, Christ Jesus.” This translation clearly differentiates between God and Christ Jesus, the one through whom God provides salvation. It agrees with what it says in Titus 1:4 - "May there be undeserved kindness and peace from God [the] Father and Christ Jesus our Savior". It also agrees with 2 Thessalonians 1:12 - "in order that the name of our Lord Jesus may be glorified in YOU, and YOU in union with him, in accord with the undeserved kindness of our God and of the Lord Jesus Christ."

I appreciate your question. As a Christian Witness of Jehovah, I will try to explain.

The Revised Standard reads this way at Titus 2:13: “Awaiting our blessed hope, the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ.” Similar wording is found in New English, Today’s English Version and the Jerusalem Bible. The one you quoted may be one of these. How does the New World Translation read? “While we wait for the happy hope and glorious manifestation of the great God and of the Savior of us, Christ Jesus.” The New American Bible reads: “As we await the blessed hope, the appearance of the glory of the great God and of our Savior Jesus Christ.

Which translation agrees with Titus 1:4, which refers to “God the Father and Christ Jesus our Savior”? Yes, the Scriptures refer to God as being a Savior, but this text clearly differentiates between God and Christ Jesus, the one through whom God provides salvation.

Some argue that Titus 2:13 indicates that Christ is both God and Savior. Interestingly, RS, NE, TEV, JB render Titus 2:13 in a way that might be construed as allowing for that view. Why don’t they follow the same rule in their translation of 2 Thessalonians 1:12? Henry Alford, in The Greek Testament, states: “I would submit that [a rendering that clearly differentiates God and Christ, at Titus 2:13] satisfies all the grammatical requirements of the sentence: that it is both structurally and contextually more probable, and more agreeable to the Apostle’s way of writing.”—(Boston, 1877), Vol. III, p. 421.

Moreover, all scriptures that deal with Jesus and with God must be taken into consideration. No scripture nullifies or contradicts another on the same subject. The Bible – as a whole – does not teach that Jesus is the same as God Almighty. He is divine, yes. He is a god, yes. But he is not God Almighty. Thus, by his own words, we learn this at John 17:3 where he refers to his heavenly father as the only true God.

Hannah J Paul