Why Does The Lie About This Jefferson Quote Persist ?...... " Dissent is the Highest Form of Patriotism "

As a narrow-minded Conservative, you will never understand the liberating mentality of us enlightened Liberals: it's ok to spread lies to spread the truth.

It doesn't matter if Thomas Jefferson never said those words because we Liberals understand that envoking the spirit of a compassionate idea is more important than the literal truth. What is important is that those words would really have credence coming from Jefferson. We wish he had said them. Now.... thanks to those of us who took the trouble, he has!

It's like when we talk about the Constitution. There are some serious omissions in it, but we're convinced that if the Founding Fathers were alive today, they'd like totally agree with us, and want our additions or corrections. Even if they wouldn't, these were old-fashioned prudish white dudes. They couldn't possibly understand today's more complicated life, could they? So in a way we're doing them a favor by helping them to not become irrelevant. They get to have their positions evolve, even when they're dead.

George Soros is a man full of compassion. He helped fund a study revealing that 650,000 (!!!) people have died as a result of the Iraq invasion. He knows the numbers are grossly inflated (by about half a million), but he's doing it for a noble purpose: so the U.S. will be forced to recede from the international scene and stop being a powerhouse in foreign affairs.

You see, George Soros wants to spread the truth about the horrors of war by showing the terrible death figures. If those figures aren't high enough to be impressive, he should be able to take a little "poetic license" and inflate them to make his point.

He wants to show that war is terrible, kind of in direct proportion to the number that die as a result of it. In the case of Iraq, he was disappointed with how few died, so he's just changing the numbers to support the spirit of his thesis. Is that so bad?

That's not too hard for you to understand, is it Mr. Conservative?

It's the same thing with global warming. Yeah, we kind of figured out the whole temperature thing is a lie, but the steps we will take to combat the bogus global warming will benefit ecology as a whole.

Can't you understand that we're just spreading lies to spread the truth? Why can't you be understanding and compassionate like enlightened Liberals, Mr. Conservative?

No. But Thomas Jefferson did say "a little rebellion now and then is a good thing"

I don't think he meant political dissent in that quote either. I believe he was simply saying that if a government becomes corrupt enough then revolt may be the best answer.

We haven't reached that point yet. We still have a bit of control but most of us are just too lazy to utilize it. It might require actual research on the candidates and even on our Representatives.

But there is no doubt that the American people believe we haven't been going in the right direction. That things are not "hunky dory".

The fact that some (again not all) Reps and Dems want to bury their heads in the sand and pretend this isn't the case is part of the problem.

I wouldn't call for a revolution by any means. I think we've entered an age where violent outbursts will not help our country. But I would call for an overhaul of our government. A complete reset, if you will.

In the SC debate, one of the candidates had it dead on "Just sending the same people back to the White House and having them sit in different seats will not accomplish anything"

I don't think anyone is calling for a violent upheaval of the government (other than terrorists and we don't listen to them do we?)

I am a Liberal, and the only idea I can offer is that people are not paying attention. I remember the first time I read that, and it was about a year ago, and it was attributed to some political analyst or professor or something. Since I have read him (not everything, by a long shot, but some of his writing), the only thing that really stands out in my mind at the moment that he said about patriotism is: "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." That one was made famous by our own homegrown terrorist, Timothy McVeigh. If I recall, he had a T-shirt that had that quote on it. I remember the quote simply because I underlined it when I read it and was able to identify it when it was associated with Tim McVeigh. I do wish people, regardless of their political stripes, would bother to actually read something before they begin quoting it. I find made up quotations tiresome...

Nit picking history is nothing new. with the right spin and angle a person could take the writings of Sun Tzu and make it sound like he was actually against war and it's uses.

I remember a quote of Lenin's "A lie told often enough becomes the truth."

But I am reminded of another quote as well. "Repetition does not transform a lie into a truth." - Franklin D. Roosevelt. I think however Roosevelt was working on the belief that all people are rational and want to know facts rather then the emotional response of "truth".

the people who want to believe the lie will, no mater if presented with facts. only people who are willing to understand facts will be able to see though to the heart of the lie.

Granted i think your jousting at wind mills (sorry now you have me thinking on literary levels when I am tired) trying to get people to realize they are just propagating lies.

Good job exposing the facts though.

Interesting isn't it that alot of what he refers to is twisted into something totally different from that of which he actually said. Many agendas at work to keep the masses in a state of confusion. Great post by the way..

The reason's simple, and it's because people want to support their own decisions to differ with the government by refering to a past source of intellect that is widely respected. It shouldn't be necessary, it isn't for people who actually have a good point to make. This is a message for anyone who happens to try using this line - make your own reasons, don't use past ones, for why pressure for change is important. Change can be whatever you want it to be, but support it using actual sources of information, and your own arguments.

Yes, you are right of course.

Where in the World did that silly notion come from?

Google the phrase "Dissent is the highest form of patriotism" along with the name "Thomas Jefferson" and you'll find thousands of Web pages attributing the sentiment to the third president of the United States. The main problem with this is, the quote is only about 2 years old...not 200.

It was made by Howard Zinn in an interview with TomPaine.com to justify his opposition to the War on Terror. Someone erroneously attributed the quote to Jefferson.

http://www.tompaine.com/Archive/scontent/5908.html

Howard Zinn -for those who aren't already aware- is a full fledged Communist, and proud of it

http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/Read.aspx?GUI...

Rudimentary fact-checking plainly reveals this whole "dissent is patriotic" nonsense to be an utter crock of complete B.S.

http://etext.lib.virginia.edu/jefferson/quotations...

Political dissent goes along with Jefferson stating that democratic governments need to be overthrown every 20 years.

Since he is saying political dissension should only be expressed in a perfect society, it seems that he's saying, since he's doubtful that a perfect society will never exist, and of course they won't, political dissent should never be allowed, which contradicts the first amendment. If that is what he's saying, then he's full of BS. It doesn't matter if he is a founding father, Jefferson had slaves, too. Maybe that's why he's objecting to voicing political dissent; he was just a capitalist lazy butthead who needed slaves.

You don't need authorities to tell you how to think, to the contrary, following authorities get in the way of thinking. I can only gather you're a conservative that loves following authoritiy, expecially the Bible's and Churche's and want everyone else to do the same.

Because liberals like to feel good.

Thanks, Ernest and Dead Marxist. I have learned something today.

I wonder if I should ask for a percentage of my tuition back?