Are Harley's archaic??

HD makes a bike that fits the market. It doesn't have to be technologically sophisticated to sell well because it is the image that sells the bike. Sure they are well made motorcycles, some of the best finish work I've ever seen on bikes right off the showroom floor. But all of that aside, weight, handling and power make the big twins less attractive to a large portion of the overall MC market. Let’s face it, not everybody likes the same food, why should they like the same motorcycle.

I've been riding for over 40 years and there have been two HD products that I've considered owning, an XR 750 and a Buell. None of the other bikes have ever appealed to me. But I don't bash the brand. Although I take exception to owners that act like it is the only bike in the world worth riding. I just ignore the bashers and closed minded people that won't see that their opinions are just, opinions. They might be able to rationalize their positions to themselves, but that doesn't mean they are right.

Those models you cited were efforts to take technology ahead. If you don’t try, you will never secede. Corporate failures?, no they were advertising successes. Each of those models heightened the attention for the manufacturers, not unlike what the Tomahawk has done for Chrysler.

Hey Jack K.,

That's mystique, not mystic. You're posting is proving two of my points.

It's all about the style with a H-D. Air cooled/pushrod V-twins are what make the cruiser market. So much so that Yamaha made their own (Road Star). When it came out, it was even more behind the times than the H-D as it had a carb where the Harleys were fuel injected.

H-D had as many failures as the Japanese. That's just what happens when you try to use advanced technology. The V-rod is an example of this.

Harley is better built today than ever before. They don't leak oil like they used to, but the oil tank on a softail can get mighty hot when it's hot out. Depending on your inseam, it could result in a nasty burn or at least some discomfort. Not true of the Dyna or Sportster models. Costs no more to service than any other bike,the warranty covers a period that will allow you to get any bugs out (there shouldn't be any). They aren't cheap, they are getting more modern with fuel injection and keyless ignition,but the root of it all is over 100 years old. Be sure its what you want,look at a Victory also.

I own horses. I blow glass. I've logged with horse teams. Nothing wrong with archaic when you embrace it. But being archaic and claiming you are not.... that's like owning a chrome plated B&W RCA with leather tassles on the knobs and claiming it is better than your friend's Sony HDTV.

Sure the Harley is archaic and that's probably part of the attraction. If the rest of us were riding Star Wars speeders, Harley guy would still happily pay more for a Harley.

Any air-cooled V-twin is more about looks than mechanical function. Guys with Japanese cruiser are being archaic too, they just want a bit more bike and don't wanna spend extra for the Harley name.

More people own horses than Harleys. Many horses would sell for much more than than the most expensive production bike. I don't think that proves that horses are superior to motorcycles.

Just admit that you are into dressing up like a movie biker and riding a slightly modernized reproduction of a 1930's motorcycle and stop with the ridiculous claims and the stuck-up Harley guy attitude. Quit being a posing Harley dork and wave at all your fellow bikers like the Harley guys used to do.

Nate i own a 77 sportster it will do 120 easily and get there pretty quick and until they make the speed limit 150 I think i have more then enough power it's as you say an old amf job but 20$ in gaskets to seal the oil leaks and it's fine amf didn't change the engine design it been the same since the 50s up until the evo motor

A lot of the people who say HDs are inferior are comparing them to sport bikes. Yes, a HD is inferior to a sport bike. But an Aston Martin is also inferior to a Formula 1 car, as well. You can't compare Harleys to sport bikes. Be fair. Compare them to Japanese cruisers.

Japanese cruisers don't have the best materials. Sure, they will last you a long time (just like a Harley), but they are made of cheap chrome-looking plastics. They are low on torque (hp doesn't really matter that much on a bike) and my 2001 Honda Shadow 1100 shifted poorly. They pretty much have the same technology. Harleys still have pushrods, but since they make more torque, who cares? I've owned both and I will never own another Japanese cruiser. They just aren't that great. And they depreciate like crazy, too.

engine technology hasn't changed much in almost 100 years. both Harley & Indian made 8 valve v twins before 1918 & there were car engines with double over head cams before 1915. so theres no secrets there. the only advances have been in materiels, manufacturing techniques & electronics.

to stay in business you have to make a product that people want to buy & in 2007 Harley made 49% of the over 651 cc bikes sold in the U.S. Honda came in second with 18%, thats the first time in a lot of years Harley didnt make more than half of the heavy weight bikes(650 cc& up) sold in this country. so dont expect any radical changes soon because their attempts at changes in the past never sold very well.

a chair made today will have a back & seat in the same proportions as a chair made 400 years ago with only minor detail changes. motorcycles seem to have reached that state of ergonomic perfection in the late1930s .

Harley may die off with its customer base but it wont be because of poor business decisions & they will attempt to change if their sales fall off in relation to other bike manucturers but not before. actually like most greybeards I,ve got a lot of past resentment towards the motor company but fairs fair & I'm bored anyway & its too cold to work on the 2 bikes in the basement.

correction. sales figures for 2006 not 2007 in U.S.

651cc & up motorcycles

Harley Davidson 49%

Honda 15%

Suzuki 13%

Yamaha 9%

Kawasaki 7%

other 8% includes BMW

dont have 2007 figures yet

When I think of motorcycles, I picture in my mind a Harley Davidson's, Hells angel's, and leather.

Its the image that's probably stereotyped america (USA) for a long time.

Although I appreciate the beauty of the bikes and their ancient heritage, I would honestly never own one.

I personally think they're too expensive for my income.

For an 800cc foreign bike...you'd pay double for the same size with a Harley. My question is...what are you paying for?

Are the parts cheaper? Is the bike easier to service? Does it get better gas mileage? Does it have great resale value (probably true)?

Likely its just for the name and the subculture.

Although I prefer to buy US products, you have to pick and choose your poison. I've know people who ride Harley's that stand by the "buy American" blah, but they will be wearing foreign made clothes and decorating their houses with foreign made plasmas.

I ride a 1985 700c Honda Magna..and its done its job well.

In summary, it mainly comes down to money for me. I simply can't afford a Harley for what it offers; just like I can't afford a Chevrolet Corvette for what it offers.

To Nate's response I can only say, you are exactly right, the Harley is not as fast as Jap bikes half it's size. But, what you and many others don't seem to understand is that Harley is not trying to make a fast bike, people do not buy a Harley because they want a fast bike. It's not always about speed man.

H-D controls the CRUISER market, not the big bike market. Honda, BMW, H-D are the top three in big bike market, then Yamaha, Victory, etc.

H-D buying public is buying "image" as marketed by H-D.

V-Rod? I like them, but not what the faithful think of as a "real H-D".

Even the Evo engines are begining to have emission/driveability prob.

Japanese corporate marketing failures?

Everyone has them.

H-D couldn't sell their "cafe racer" model either...see above coment about "the faithful". Suspect their "street tracker" model will also have a tough time making H-D type sales numbers.

PS: Can anyone defend the present frame and the lack of handling?

Come on U know H-D and handling NEVER appear in the same sentence.