Pagans/Wiccans: The "Advanced Books" Question.?

Considering the integrity of some of their beginner books, I'd hate to see what would be in an advanced book published by them.

Llewellyn is a company wanting to earn money. They've saturated the beginner market and now that many beginners want something with more depth, they have to publish something people will read. How many beginner books can one take before getting bored? I'll give them the benefit of the doubt by saying that they may have learned from their mistakes. However, my personal ethics prevent me from supporting them by buying any more of their books.

The advanced knowledge is within traditions and within the hearts and lives of those who sincerely follow their path.

When referring to books, "advanced" might be the most subjective word in Wicca.

Whether or not the material in a book is advanced, depends entirely upon what the reader/student has already read/studied.

I genuinely believe that most authors believe they are writing advanced books when they sit down to write. I am sure they are basing this off of what they have seen with their own students of their experiences with others. There is validity to the argument that advanced material is specialized material and most of the books on my shelf I would consider advanced are books on specific subjects.

True advanced material probably only lives in two forms; in the form of specialized books on subjects that simply aren't of interest to everyone and in the notebooks and hard drives of those who train labeled as "curriculum".

If I had any fantastic ideas regarding advanced books, Llewellyn would be the last place I'd take them. They can't even turn out decent beginner materials. I find it amusing that they exclude history and memoirs as I learn way more from those two types of books than any other subject. The problem is that subjects such as ritual and all the things that occur within ritual are things best learned not from a book.

I am not wiccan but have looked into the path and almost became a member but couldnt grasp the one god and one goddess with many aspects thing, sorry. But in answer to the fluffy bunnies thing yes i think they are bringing down the reputation of the religion as a whole, because many in that path have become those and many people see those as being the normal people of the religion, which of course isnt true. They can be found in a number of authors and clog up the religion to the point where everything becomes a big mess. I have encountered some and the best i could do was to talk to them and attempt to open them up and tell them what they were doing was abit off and what needed to change for the better. They werent to happy about it but after awhile they finally changed and are proud and well respected members of their covens, when before the covens wouldnt let them in for how clogging they were.

I know where the advanced books are. You're right not with Llewellyn. The thing is that they've pandered to the people who wanted to play and not take their beliefs seriously. So there hasn't been any authors worried about getting an advanced book written or published. It's one reason I like the older books, they have substance. I'm not saying all the newer books are trash, I believe that all books contain a gem of wisdom, but that they lack the depth that is needed. Also with the people that are playing with Paganism and Wicca don't care to know the real history or to read through tough parts. They want instant gratification.

I think that there are some good books published by Llewellyn, but you have to dig deep, for a long time to find them. I would like to read some more advanced books, but I have to admit that I'm uncertain about what should be included in them. When one advances in the Craft, we often go our own ways and focus on different areas like herbology, divination, crystals, etc. Most "advanced" Witches write their own rituals and have found a pantheon they are comfortable with, we not only know what tools are but how to make them, and which ones work for us or not. I think some memoirs of some advanced modern Witches could be very insightful, and help advanced students.

As a heathen, it is with a tremendous sense of dread that I've noted Llewellyn's forays into our traditions, largely via Paxson and Thorsson. I *so* hope they don't do for Asatru what they've done for Wicca! :-/

Fortunately, my own "advanced books" as a Folktru Recon are already out there . . . from Dover, Oxford, Anglo-Saxon Press, Four Courts Press, Haskolautgafan, and various small university presses where they still have a Germanic Studies chair . . . *G*

I agree with the "any company BUT yours".

I think those who get that far are into personal one on one teaching, or have progressed beyond the "wiccan" and "pagan" books and are studying other things of depth - lke comparative religions, mythology, herbology, etc.

Personally, I find almost all of the Llewellyn Press books only good for propping up table legs, and to use whent he power goes out to keep warm. But then, I find better things to do with my money thsn buy their books - like buy cotton candy. Same worth, same value, same longevity.

:-D

I love your answer. And I have to agree.

I stopped buying books through Llwellyn years ago, unless I'm really desperate for a bit of eye candy. They have sexy covers and nifty titles down to an art. Too bad they aren't as good with scholarship and research.

And honestly, I also agree with some of his other assertions. After you've read the basics, the only way to really continue is to practice and get your own experiences. Advanced books, by which I mean books that discuss indepth the meaning behind magic, ritual, metaphor, history, etc, are no substitute for actual experiences. Maybe that's why Llwellyn has never sold them, they are definitely not as popular.

Llewellyn books make good fire lighter but thats about it!

"Advanced Paganism", is that like Advance Dungeons & Dragons; that's about Llewellyn's level of credibility.

Here's something everyone....read books before the "big publishing boom" started by Llewellyn :)