If a god really existed, could morality exist?

The core of true morality is love (i.e. - caring for others as you care for yourself) which is the basis for any truly moral law.

Where there is no law, nothing is criminal.

If morality were based solely on ones conscience, then whose conscience should it be based on and how can we know that conscience is pure and free of self serving motives?

Your definition of morality, that it only exists in the absence of all selfish motivations is humanly unattainable and totally unrealistic. Who do you know that is totally void of selfish motivations? Atheists only??? Everyone is born intrinsically selfish so your argument falls apart.

Any judgment of behaviors after being held up to the altruistic principle of Love which the Christ taught (against which there is no reasonable law) will show that we all fall short. The present and natural consequences of violating this Law of Love, to which we Should be obedient, are clear. Such violations are harmful and have lasting and devastating effects leading to neglect, abuse, addiction and eventually self-destruction. Heaven and Hell are simply an eternal extension of these present and physical consequences into spiritual infinity.

If there was no Creator who made things to be a certain way then there would be no certain way for anything to be. Conscience could then be molded to rationalize any behavior. Why not do as you please? If only the strong survive then why help the weak? Does not evolution teach that the weak should die? Where is the morality in that?

If I'm understanding your argument correctly, then we cannot be completely moral in our modern societies, because there are laws prohibiting immoral behaviors.

But that's not so at all. I don't break the laws of my country, but not because they are the laws of my country! Even if they were NOT the law, I still wouldn't do those acts, because I am moral. I do not suddenly become not moral just because my country made laws forbidding immoral acts. I am still moral, because of my reason for not committing those acts. My reason is, I don't want to hurt anyone. The reason is not because I fear getting caught. I've been in situations where I could have easily done something illegal and/or immoral without ever getting caught, and I refrained from doing those things. And my restraint was never because I thought that God was watching. I just really wanted to do the right thing. Like, one time, a clerk grossly undercharged me for a purse I was buying. I told her immediately. The reason I told her is that I care about people, and do not want to take money from them that they are working hard to try to earn. I didn't think, "Should I tell or not? Well, this lady will never know, but God will." I just did it intuitively.

I agree with some of your statements. It is true that true morality does not exist just because someone follows all the rules. If they are only doing right for reward and to avoid punishment, that does not make them a moral person, but a selfish person.

This is why I believe it is so important to really know ourselves and to know what drives us. I need to look at my own motives, to check to see if they are truly pure. If I am being selfish, then I need to at least realize this, so that I can work on becoming less selfish, and motivated by what is truly good.

morality is the judgment of good and bad behaviour according to conscience<<==and there are some acts that are good for some and bad for others-_- that's why there's a need for a standard---to see which is sugar-coated and which is twisted

true morality can only come in the absence of all motivations which are selfish<<==Ashura-o was right in saying that people always want something for themselves; if they say that there are selfless people, they're mistaken

Is it immoral to drive 60mph in a 40mph zone? Who has the right to set laws of speed limits?

If everyone were as moral as you claim, why do we have police enforcing the laws our society has set?

Why do we lock our front doors at night, if we could trust everyone to be moral?

Who taught you your morals? Did you just have them intuitively? Do your kids just act polite intiutively, or do you have to teach them how to behave?

The fact is we have a conscience that tells us what is right and wrong. But we don't always obey that conscience, because we are really morally corrupt.

If there is a moral law which helps distinguish right from wrong, good from evil, there has to be a moral law giver. Who is that moral law giver that has implanted the conscience into our being?

The guiding principles of the world's religions are, for the most part, similar to those of the world's ethicists, present and past.

Many spiritual people consider their own sense of right and wrong to be a product of their religion directly. But there are also those who look at the simple existence of human morality as proof of a higher power, while still using their own moral compass for guidance.

I agree that the "reward" of heaven (in my opinion, it's the fear of hell that motivates more effectively) can be seen as a goal justifying moral behavior. But as long as the results are positive, the motivation is not that relevant.

I think that morality, in a religious meaning, is understood as a privation of freedom. For instance you don't have a morale if you have sex before the marriage (as Christians state). But... do you think that God, if he/she/it exists, can create man with some *restrictions*? I think that all the past stupid way of thinking has made the difference between spirituality and religion. As an atheist, you can have your morality, but... each one will define his/her own morality. If, for example, for me it has no sense to use drugs, maybe I can fix my "morality meter" to a level such that if someone uses drugs it won't be good, as he has no morale. I think it's a very subjective matter... (I'm atheist and I thought a lot about this...)

Morality has a basis in evolution. As mankind evolved, morality allowed him to create functioning societies. However, what is moral in one society is does not translate into another. In ancient greece uncles were expected to have sex with their pubescent nephews. It was expected. It was moral. Ancient Rome thought it was moral to own slaves and have gladiator games. In our own age, in Nazi Germany, it was "moral" for the SS to kills Jews, as it supposedly preserved the state. There is an example in the book "Hitler's Willing Executioners" of an SS officer berating a solider for killing a Polish farmer's pig and eating it without permission - he just stole the pig. That behavior was unbecoming and unacceptable for a solider in the German SS - it was immoral. This coming at the end of a 3-day mass-murder of 33,000 Jews.

Society's leaders define morals, and morals define gods. Not the other way around.

I am with the 1/2 and 1/2 guy , to most ppl morality is nothing more then the fear of repercussion of their foul behavior. that is why religious are so set on keep telling that to themselves. because if they don't do as the good lord states in his book or they burn in hell.

I would wonder what these ppl are like if they didn't have that fear?

morals for us are much more then the Bible states - do no harm and that means don't do or say anything to hurt another!

I could never tell anyone they will burn in hell! :((

Mostly every person in a religion acts good because he or she fears damnation, I hear them say it all the time "I will honor my enemies so god will accept me into his kingdom"

As an Atheist I can choose to be good, and that is what Morality is all about.

"A man's ethical behavior should be based effectually on sympathy, education, and socialties; no religious basis is necessary. Man would indeed be in a poor way if he had to be restrained by fear of punishment and hope of reward after death"

-Albert Einstein

Morality is man's conception. God who very much exists does not regulate morality in any way..It is necessary for man to know what God is not; to know what God is. Sin therefore does not exist in God's eyes and indeed is part of God's process..Read this truth in Conversations with God by Neale Donald Walsch..God bless