Does intelligent design really make sense?

Good question.

A young fellow just asked almost the same question a while ago: "If God created everything, then who created God?" This is the shortest I could answer and do justice to your question. I think you'll find that 90% of it is applicable.

But think about it. When did time begin? What time was it an hour before that? And where does space end? And if it has an end, what is on the other side of that? They go on forever, infinitely, or at least so far that there's not much point in our pursuing the matter.

So there are some things within our everyday experience that are infinite. Space may be curved, but then, if it went straight, where would it go, and how far? Mathematicians and quantum physicists deal with infinity every day. So saying that God is infinite shouldn't be that hard to comprehend, really.

And if there is no God because there is no one to create him, then how did intelligent life come to be by itself? Many top scientists theorize and believe that it did by evolution...So the question is really just a circular question, that is, one that goes around in a circle without ever coming to a definite answer, one that substitutes US for God, because it says that it is possible that we, instead of God, came into being by ourselves.

Problem is, in our universe there is something called entropy, which, among other things, means that complicated things tend to go downhill instead of uphill, if you know what I mean. They don't get better by themselves. And we and every other living thing are very complicated. That's why you have teachers, engineers, scientists, coaches, managers--to improve things, or at least to keep them from going downhill. And even something as simple as a fly comes equipped with things that are hard to believe as happening by themselves--self-constructing, self-programming, self-correcting, navigational system that enables it to fly forward, backward, and upside down, self-fueling, SELF-REPRODUCING. We can't yet design ANYTHING like that. Whoever did deserves great respect.

If there is a God, and many people believe the evidence goes that way, He would be on a completely different plane than we are, made of different stuff than we are and possibly existing amid different rules and forces than we are, and any attempt to explain what he is will be like a bacteria trying to explain to another bacteria what the scientist is like who is looking at them through the microscope. Completely different scale of time, size, speed, ability. And vastly different scales sometimes have vastly different rules and forces at work. Can't you just hear the bacteria? "She can't possibly travel that fast! He can't possibly be that big! She can't possibly be that smart! He can't possibly live that long!" Stephen Hawking, in his book, "The Universe in a Nutshell", noted how some of the atomic forces only become noticeable on extremely small scales, gravity only on extremely large scales. People long wondered how the gecko lizard could stick to and walk on the ceiling, without glue on his feet. Scientists discovered that there are forces and rules at work in the tiny fibers on his feet (microfibers) that they hadn't realized existed or were at work. And NOW we have Microfiber cloths, mops, etc. (But who figured out how to grow microfibers on the gecko's feet? And nowhere else?) If we're smart, it seems to me that we need to recognize the same possiblity of as-yet-undiscovered principles, rules and forces with God.

The more I think about it, saying that God has always been here is hard to understand, but no other choice for a beginning of the universe can be said to make any more sense. Starting from nothing doesn't make any sense to me. Where would anything come from? And why? And even the Big Bang assumes a starting point with all of the mass and energy of the universe crammed into it. But how long was THAT there? And where did it come from? And why? And saying that God might have had some sort of beginning succumbs to the fallacy of just pushing the same problem farther back in time.

The problem with evolution is entropy, the natural tendency of order and information to disappear, not improve. And that seems to be inherent in the numbers, no matter what universe you might be talking about. Life is very orderly, and anything requiring order or ordered steps has one or just a few possible correct ways to do it, but there are an infinite number of ways NOT to lead to the desired outcome. So random occurences have almost an infinite chance of being the wrong ones, pitifully few chances of being the right ones, for each step. The more ordered steps that are required, the more the deck seems to me to be stacked against random happenings producing the desired steps. And any sort of evolution depends on random changes.

So, while I wish I could explain why God has always been here, I see no improvement in saying that matter, or its building blocks, have always been here. Same problem. Still trying to deal with infinity, which is more than a little unreasonable in the first place. There are an infinite number of points in a 1 square foot plot of land. But there are also an infinite number of points in two acres. But would you let someone trade you one square foot for your two acre lot?

The Bible says that God is made of different stuff (John 4:23,24) and exists in a different environment, allowing for different rules, principles and forces. Since in our generation alone we have discovered several forces not previously recognized, and an incredible number of principles and processes and techniques, that, especially now, doesn't seem unreasonable.

What's more, 10,000 children died yesterday from malnutrition and dirty water. 40,000,000 babies were hacked to death or poisoned with salt in what was supposed to be the security of their mother's womb last year alone. And in one of the richest and best educated countries in the world, 50% of married couples can't figure out how to make their marriage work well enough to keep it, in spite of the fact that divorce is rated as one of the biggest stressors that you can go through. All things easily curable if 100% of the people in the world applied Bible principles. So I feel like helping with that is really practical, while trying to deal with infinity is not likely to lead to any useful conclusion!

Yet and still, it is natural, like we don't feel secure if there is a loose end like that dangling. But I'm afraid that, the more I think about it, since it is trying to deal with infinity, it's going to be dangling no matter what beginning we choose! "God has always existed." "Matter has always existed." See any similarities? So I have no problem going with the Bible's explanation. However the universe began, we are here now, so the problem of infinity has been solved,and, though in a universe where information has a natural tendency to disappear, we give evidence an incredible assortment of complicated,self-repairing, well-coordinated information. Very unnatural. As someone said, natural selection can explain the survival of the fittest, but it does not explain the ARRIVAL of the fittest. In a universe governed by entropy. To me, only an intelligent Creator does.

But as for us being God, I don't know much, but I know that NONE of us is able to design (much less build) a self-constructing, self-programming, self-correcting navigational system, much less a self-reproducing flying machine hooked up to it to use it, microminiaturized into a space the size of a simple fly. And the same could be said for all the parts of our body. If you lose ANYTHING, NO ONE can make you another one that works and feels as good as the original. And that includes your built-in 20hz-20,000 hz stereo system (your ears), your twin self-focusing, self-adjusting 3-D motion picture cameras (your eyes), digitally interfaced into you own personal PC that, according to the encyclopedia, is equal to 10,000 Cray computers (the biggest computer) (your brain), that requires no keyboard and you can work just by thinking about it, and that had "Face Recognition" a thousand years ago, a system to fuel your body with taste buds that can enjoy your fuels like ice cream, watermelon, and steak (nothing like it in modern technology), your genuine all-terrain vehicle which can climb walls, mountains, ladders, and go for miles on just a peanut butter bar (your legs, arms, and body). So Whoever created us not only is smart but also very nice to give us all that, FREE. And he deserves all the appreciation we can muster up, don't you think?

Thank you for your logical question.

Best regards,

Mike

That is correct: you can't stop logic just because it is inconvenient.

If complex things require a creator, then the creator, which must be more complex, would also require a creator.

If for some reason a being does not need a creator, then it is logical to conclude that not everything does actually need a creator, and can therefore occur naturally.

Btw, the watch argument is patently false because metal and plastic do not poses the properties that allow it to naturally combine, transform, and metabolize like biologic material and raw chemicals can.

I think the theory of Intelligent Design--if it may be called a theory--makes just about as much sense to people as the idea of Eternal Return. The truth is that no one knows how the world came to be, and there is zero evidence for any concept people have come up with.

Many people assume that there is a Creator out there who was and is above all things--the "ultimate being", so to speak--and as such is not limited by our own very human sense of logic, space, and time.

Most believers consider it common sense to choose the "watch in the forest" theory rather than to scratch their heads thinking about the idea that all things have always existed--something which in their minds is an equally preposterous line of logic.

Yes, intelligent design makes complete sense because the Universe shows signs of design and incredible fine-tuning. The chances of a life appearing on earth entirely by accident are an estimated 1 part in 10 to the 2 billionth power, and i'm just talking about the simplest Bacteria, you can't even imagine the chances against humans appearing.

If Earth was any further away from the Sun, we would freeze.

If Earth was any closer to the Sun, we would burn up.

This is just one of over 70 examples of why Earth, the Solar System, the Galaxy and the Universe is perfectly fine-tuned to host complex intelligent life.

You're correct. Intelligent Design is simply an assumption that certain people make to imply the existence of God, since they have no direct evidence to rely on. However, they overlook the logical fallacy that their assumption is that everything complex must have a creator, yet they see no reason why that creator must have likewise been created. Circular logic at its finest. I'm surprised it's gotten this far.

I've heard it said in a different way, but basically saying the same thing. 'the possibility that the big bang created life simply by chance is like a tornado going over a junkyard creating Taj Mahal'. Here's another interesting idea, if God is all powerful than God can create an aged earth..?!!? I believe even better proof is through Jesus because he is a pure example that the ability to choose places us in a world of influence, defeating the Devils greatest weapons which were fear of death and torture while being tempted to take an easier path. Asking ourselves "Why Jesus would give his life for his enemies" it's because the world is trying to bring out the worst in us, while God is trying to bring out the best in us. The complexities of our souls reasonably supports the complexities of life and the creation of the universe.

That is one reason why ID fails as an hypothesis, the others include that there is no good definition as to why one system is complex and another isn't, and that there is absolutely no evidence to back it up.

Edit:

The Watchmaker argument is based on the assumption that you can prove things by showing that they are reasonable. Contrary to popular opinion, science is based on evidence and some things we now accept (or haven't heard of yet) were at one time thought to be quite unreasonable. Arguments about reasonableness or from incredulity, are basically pointless when it comes to evaluating evidence.

Edit:

I'm surprised that anyone would mention "Expelled", as this movie is a verifiable set of lies and misrepresentations. I was embarrassed for the Christian community due to this movie's intellectual dishonesty.

What does that have to do with God? If malaria is in S,.American it brought there, much like small pox. ____ Glad you brought up sickle cell and evolution, and the fact that their is genetic evolutionary difference in it. Still what about homosexuality and evolution. There is no genetic difference, and the difference is only found ( I guess in the brain). However it is never mentioned that brain's size can be effected by the environment. An abused child brain looks different under a cat scan, from a child who is not abused (this is an example).

Why do you have to assume the creator had a creator? Couldn't he create everything? Every human cell has more organized information then 30 encyclopedia brittanicas. But that is just by chance??? Intelligent design makes sense to me.

We believers can't explain and don't know where God came from, anymore than proponents of the Big Bang theory know where the necessary ingredients came from to start the explosion. I happen to believe that there is a power at work in the universe and also believe in the big bang theory. I just can't answer how either started.

Who made God?

GGod.

who made GGod?

GGGod.

etc.

A man went to see a Guru to find the true nature of the universe. The Guru told him the Earth was on the back of a giant turtle. The man was confused. He asked the Guru what the turtle was standing on. The Guru replied that it was standing on the back of another giant turtle.

The man tells the Guru that it does not make sense, and the guru says "You must understand, my son, that it is turtles all the way down"